Re: BSc to PhD?
A “universal standard for degrees is a fine idea but not very likely.
My bias is from the US perspective, where one can get an approx. 2 yr. masters after the typical 4 yr B.S./B.A. The PhD can usually follow after an additional 3 years (or more). Less common but also more common among elite graduate programs in the USA, a good
student can go from the BS/BA directly through doctorate in about 5 years.
There certainly are pros and cons of the different systems. However, the British concept of almost total concentration on geology curricula for the 3-yr undergrad degree is not for everyone. If we assume that the zenith of a geoscience career is doing top-level
research, then the Brit system may be best However, at its best, the liberal-arts emphasis among many US schools tends to produce more circumspect and flexible individuals. These people are better suited for integrated, managerial tasks in the future. This
“track” is where industry and government ought to look for its leadership. Today, more than ever, the world needs the combination of very competent science and a broader, more applied perspective.
Jeff G.
On 8/7/11 2:24 PM, "Jo Marion" <[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]> wrote:
With the long-term effect of the misguided abolishment of state-run grammar schools in Britain, we are in real danger of losing all meritocracy in education,
especially with the introduction of exorbitant undergraduate tuition fees. The British geology degree is of a very high standard and I do believe students are adequately schooled for PhD research if
they have innate analytic ability.
An excellent way of judging if a student is suitable for research is through the final year project – usually a mapping project for geology. My
college actively encouraged and supported an extended project in addition to a full mapping project, and it placed the marking supervisor in an excellent position to judge the student’s ability and tenacity to go on to PhD research.
Can I suggest that UK colleges encourage Geology BSc students interested in going onto PhD to undertake an extended project and that the reference
supplied by the marking supervisor be the most valued. It will show commitment from the student and give potential PhD supervisors an important
indicator of suitability. It will also encourage poorer students to consider PhD as they will not have an extra MSc year to fund.
J. Marion
> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 20:03:45 +0100
> From: [log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [GEO-TECTONICS] BSc to PhD?
> To: [log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
>
> >Dear Colleagues,
>
> I think that Paul Ryan and Cara Burberry have the "right answer"
> between them. We need a mechanism (the Bologna process or something
> like it) to allow and encourage ease of student movement across
> Europe and the globe, recognizing that students have different years
> of experience and expertise/training in different countries. The
> solution is "do not force uniformity of training and degree structure
> but recognize and allow for the differences. The funding authorities
> must loosen up and take this into account.
>
> Best wishes,
> John
>
> >I should add that although Europe is developing tools to assist in
> >the recognition of degrees, this does not
> >take away the right of an individual course director to select
> >students according to the advertised pre-requisites.
> >
> >In that academics are still 'free'.
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >Professor Paul D. Ryan
> >EOS, NUI, Galway, Ireland
> >tel:+353(0)91794599 mob: +353(0)872956190
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Tectonics & structural geology discussion list on behalf of
> >Mary-Caroline Burberry
> >Sent: Fri 8/5/2011 1:14 PM
> >To: [log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: BSc to PhD?
> >
> >It seems to me that it's not the official "name" of the degree that
> >is the pre-requisite for a PhD but the amount the student knows and
> >time they have actually spent studying geology.
> >
> >I trained in the British system where we studied next to nothing but
> >geology for the 3 or 4 years of the undergraduate, and am now
> >teaching in the US system where my students have to take a large
> >amount of general education classes and therefore spend around 40%
> >of their time actually studying geology, over a 4-5 year average
> >time in undergrad. After the undergrad degree, my US students have
> >to go on to a Masters pre-PhD so that they can improve their
> >knowledge of (often) core geology. We currently have at least one
> >MSc student here who has never had a structural geology class. I'd
> >be very skeptical indeed of taking on a student as a PhD student
> >with the 50% general education credits that many of my undergrads
> >have, even if the student in question had been in university for
> >years.
> >
> >I don't know how these systems compare to the EU system, having
> >never been a part of it.
> >
> >--
> >Cara Burberry
> >
> ><http://greatamericanphotocontest.com/voter1/index5.aspx?p=2932213&x=.jpg&referid=FB>
> ><http://www.komennebraska.org/site/TR?px=1196900&pg=personal&fr_id=1030&et=z9nKoQAnMK3tVSV8SjLcaQ..&s_tafId=1720>
> >Donate $13.10 FOR THE CURE!!!
> ><http://pages.teamintraining.org/ne/omaha11/cburberqb8>
>
>
> --
> Please note that my email address has changed to: [log in to unmask]">
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>
> Prof. John F. Dewey FRS, M.R.I.A., FAA, Mem. Acad. Eur., Mem.
> US Nat. Acad. Sci., Distinguished Emeritus Professor University of
> California, Emeritus Professor and Supernumerary Fellow, University
> College Oxford.
>
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