The 'modernisation' of EU degrees is directed by the Bologna Process and the Lisbon Recognition Convention on degree recognition.
The Minsters who control the Bologna Process thought in 1999 that this would be complete by 2010, they are now planning to have
it done by 2020 in the 47 signatory countries. Currently, I believe a total of 68, countries world-wide are considering the Bologna
reforms as they also wish to improve the efficiency of their higher education systems. One effect of these reforms seems to have been
increasing student mobility in the EU, which now accounts for >50% of all such mobility globally.
Degree structures are governed by national law, not imposed by the EU. However, the EU promotes Bologna compliant practices
by requiring these for such schemes as Erasmus Mundus. The Bologna Process is an attempt, amongst other things, to
facilitate mutual recognition of degrees, both for purposes of further study and employment (see the EuroAges - http://www.euro-ages.eu
which aims to develop Europe wide standards for the geological profession).
A useful review of the current state of affairs - as this is a work in progress - can be found at:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/activities/committees/studies/download.do?language=en&file=35091
There are nice summary diagrams+tables in the Annex which show the current state of play in Bachelors-Masters-Doctorate progression models.
Paul
Professor Paul D. Ryan
EOS, NUI, Galway, Ireland
tel:+353(0)91794599 mob: +353(0)872956190
-----Original Message-----
From: Tectonics & structural geology discussion list on behalf of Hermann Lebit
Sent: Thu 8/4/2011 4:30 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BSc to PhD?
Yes there is a fundamental difference in how the continental European higher education is designed relative to the anglo-american system. I agree with Ernie that about 7 years of university training should be sufficient, to start into an exciting post-graduate career, which is with about 25 in age.
The british system appears to work very well as it produces perhaps the most competitive young scientists.
Given my own endless experience of higher education in the German system plus mandatory military/social service, we graduated as methusalahs compared to the british folks.
However, there is another interesting development: most colleges are managed by student numbers nowadays, (at least on my side of the Atlantic). So school administrations are very interested to keep their customers/students as long as possible. So 4 to 5 years to a BA or BS aren't unusual.
This is about the same time somebody would spend in "Old Europe" to reach a Masters or Diploma degree.
Hermann
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless handheld.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Rutter <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Tectonics & structural geology discussion list <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 14:58:53
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Tectonics & structural geology discussion list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BSc to PhD?
Hello Jochen,
I agree with your point - up to a point. Of course, more postgraduate experience can prepare a student better to commence PhD work, but the British system of many decades, in which students go into a PhD program directly after a 3 year degree in most cases works quite well, and you have someone then who can be a productive scientist after only 7 years post-highschool university training. Of course, there is always a percentage who don't do very well. I suspect that in most countries the norm for a first degree is 4 years, after which it should be possible to drop into a PhD program. 5 years seems a bit excessive to me as a starting requirement, and as I have said, it would presently exclude a lot of potentially good candidates.
Ernie Rutter
-----Original Message-----
From: Tectonics & structural geology discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jochen Mezger
Sent: 04 August 2011 15:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: BSc to PhD?
Just a thought for all,
don't you think it is a good idea to have a
Master's degree (or in the good ole days in
Germany, a diploma) before starting a PhD? I
remember when I was a PhD student at the
University of Alberta, Canada, that students
coming directly from a BSc were much more likely
to abort or fail than those who already held a
MSc. I think the step from a BSc, where you are
basically told what to do, to a PhD which
requires independent thinking and research, and
self-discipline and the commitment to several
years of work, is quite steep. I don't think that
I could have succeeded with a PhD without having
done a diploma (aka Master's) thesis first. I
also think that most students who just finished
their BSc are quite young, too young I think, to
do a PhD. There are of course always exceptions...
Best wishes,
Jochen
At 16:19 04.08.2011, you wrote:
>Hi Ernie,
>The requirements to apply for a public-funded
>PhD in Spain require 4 years, not as bad as in Italy but
>still meaning that a masters degree is needed
>before being eligible. Students from the Netherlands
>with a three year degree for example, are also excluded.
>They call this European Space for Higher
>Education. Note that it doesn't include the term Coordinated
>at the beginning.
>cheers,
>Sergio
>
>On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 13:41:07 +0000, Ernest Rutter wrote
> > Hello Emanuele,
> > Thankyou for the information about the PhD opportunity. Are you
> > aware that the entry requirement of a Geoscience degree based on at
> > least 5 years of study will eliminate most potential applicants from
> > naturally English-speaking nations, unless they already have a
> > masters degree as well. Is this really what you wish to do?
>
> > Sincerely
> > E. Rutter
> >
> > From: Tectonics & structural geology discussion list [mailto:GEO-
> > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Emanuele Tondi
> Sent: 04
> > August 2011 14:18
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Call
> > for PhD_Italy (again)
> >
> > Excuse me for double post, the previous email has had some reading
> > problems. Regards, Emanuele
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > Dear All,
> > the Geology Division of the School of Science and Technology of the
> > University of Camerino, in collaboration with the Department of
> > Geological Sciences of the University of Basilicata, offers a PhD
> > position in: Sedimentological and stratigraphic characterization of
> > carbonate rocks, implications for failure modes and fracture
> > distribution (Earth Sciences_Project n. 3). This is a full-time
> > position, granted for a period of three years, which will start from
> > January 2012. We search for an enthusiastic and versatile student
> > keen to conduct a multi-disciplinary study.
> >
> > This PhD project aims to quantitatively characterize the
> > relationships among the compositional, depositional, diagenetical
> > and physical-mechanical properties of various types of carbonate
> > rocks cropping out in the Mediterranean area. The goal is the
> > assessment of the control exerted by the aforementioned properties
> > on the deformation at shallow crustal depths.
> >
> > Applicants must hold a degree in either Geosciences or Earth
> > Sciences based on at least five years of study. Willingness to
> > perform fieldwork, some experience on the sedimentology and/or
> > mechanics of carbonate rocks and a fluent English are required. The
> > deadline to apply is 26th August 2011. Application procedures, as
> > well as all the forms needed to apply, are available at the
> > following website: http://www.unicam.it/laureati/dottorato/.
> >
> > For further information, please do not hesitate to contact us:
> >
> > The Reservoir Characterization Project
> >
> http://www.unicam.it/geologia/ricerca/reservoir_characterization_project.pdf
> >
> > Claudio Di Celma:
> > [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> > Emanuele Tondi:
> > [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Fabrizio
> > Agosta: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> > Sergio Longhitano:
> > [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>--
>Departamento de Geologia
>Universidad de Oviedo
>
>http://www.geol.uniovi.es/~slf/slf_at_Oviedo/Main.html
***************************************************************************
Dr. Jochen Mezger
Lehrbeauftragter - Lecturer
Allgemeine Geologie
Martin-Luther-Universität Halle-Wittenberg Tel.: 49-0-345-5526120
Institut für
Geowissenschaften Fax: 49-0-345-5527220
Von-Seckendorff-Platz 3
06120 Halle Email: [log in to unmask]
GERMANY
http://www.geologie.uni-halle.de/igw/allgeo/staff/mez.html
http://allgeo.geologie.uni-halle.de/mitarbeiter/jmezger/
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