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We went to watch the film in Stamford (not far from the tomb of William Cecil) and not only were there no 3D glasses but also the advertised post-showing link up with the director didn't happen so possibly the lizard-alien at the end was the most (visually or otherwise) interesting moment but as one of a mercurial disposition myself I was quite touched that the cave artist had been evidently one of the crooked little finger fraternity too. I did wonder about the rival claims to antiquity in other places myself. I did like though Herzog's suggestion that to the people of the time the paintings had an equivalent visual impact to moving pictures. It's rather refreshing, drawing from the deep wells of the cultural past: I've just been reading Fagles' versions of the Odyssey and the Iliad, back to back, and even though translation they do remind me of why I took to poetry in the first place. Muldoon praised Fagles for catching the 'savagery and swagger' of the poems, but of course Homer isn't really any more savage than we are, *collectively*, it's just more open about it, as children are. best david On 4 August 2011 22:20, Jim Andrews <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > herzog says they're the oldest paintings. but, talking with my friend the > novelist, he says that needs to be qualified: the oldest in europe. not > surprisingly, there are older ones in africa. and australia, as you say. > chauvet was only discovered in 1994. the cave is 1300 feet long with many > twists and turns and endless stalactites and stalagmites. and lots of animal > bones and skulls, some of which are now extinct. the documentary is terrific > not only for the view of the cave paintings but the cave itself, which has > been awesome, ancient, deep and dark for tens of thousands of years. > > yes, there could be more such caves. the entrance the old people used was > covered by a rockslide. they briefly show the old entrance from the inside > of the cave. > > ja > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick McManus" < > [log in to unmask]**> > > To: <[log in to unmask]**AC.UK<[log in to unmask]> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 7:28 AM > > Subject: Re: Slidvid of Aleph Null stills > > > Cheers jim re oldest paintings how about Australian Aboriginal art? >> From wiki >> Aboriginal rock art has been created for a long period of time, with the >> oldest examples, in West Australia's Pilbara region, and the Olary >> district >> of South Australia, estimated to be up to around 40,000 years old.[2] Rock >> art gives us descriptive information about social activities, material >> culture, economy, environmental change, myth and religion. This is an >> Aboriginal way of showing recognition and wisdom-to be open to the >> environment. >> Cheers Patrick >> I am interested that there may be more caves around the Mediterranean >> because the water levels were so much lower then >> The art rep animals --more recently much art is scantily women interests >> change >> I will look out for the film I did visit an online website >> I often see female minotaurlike females in Raynes Park >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: British & Irish poets [mailto:BRITISH-IRISH-POETS@**JISCMAIL.AC.UK<[log in to unmask]>] >> On >> Behalf Of Jim Andrews >> Sent: 04 August 2011 14:21 >> To: [log in to unmask]**AC.UK<[log in to unmask]> >> Subject: Re: Slidvid of Aleph Null stills >> >> Thanks, Patrick. Speaking of Lascaux, I went to see Herzog's documentary >> about the Chauvet cave last night. His new film Cave of Forgotten Dreams >> is >> probably the best view I'm going to get of the Chauvet cave. With 3D >> glasses >> >> in a theatre with a big screen. Herzog and co were given several hours of >> visiting time over several days. It's worth seeing just to get a >> relatively >> good look at the oldest human paintings on record (32,000 years). Now's >> the >> time to see the film, while it's still in the theatres. Almost all of the >> drawings in the cave are of animals; there's only a couple of >> representations of humans. One of those is apparently female >> minotaur-like, >> but we don't get much of a view of it in the film. The animals are >> magnificent, though. A vast cave full of the oldest paintings known to >> man, >> and what are they of? Almost all of them are representations of animals. >> Rhinoceri, lions, bison, ibek, mamoths, bears, panthers, hyena...all lived >> in France 32,000 years ago, apparently. There are two overlapping animals >> that were drawn 5,000 years apart. >> >> A friend of mine is writing a novel set in that time, inspired by the >> Chauvet cave paintings. There's a part of the novel where the characters >> descend into the cave. It's really gripping. Experiencing their utterly >> ancient past, our unutterably ancient past in the dark grottos and bowels >> of >> >> the earth. These paintings were done by fully human people. Deeply >> enchanted >> >> by their fellow creatures. And, in turn, deeply enchanting. >> >> ja >> http://vispo.com/aleph/images/**slidvid1<http://vispo.com/aleph/images/slidvid1> >> http://vispo.com/aleph >> > -- David Joseph Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/