Mary
Smail
Director,
Sesame Institute for
Drama and Movement Therapy
www.sesame-institute.org
We are not who we think we are. Or as Lydia says we are not even who others think we are!
But talking about Bhudism, what about the spirit? I have had about 3 experiences of seeing and hearing first hand evidence of the existence of this that I personally can't argue with. I was the only one who noticed [saw or heard] apart from the last one that involved my 2 year old daughter [now 27]. She had no memory of it a few weeks later. I was very relieved about that [no toddler should be burdened with terrifying and tragic memories of her last hours and her own death in a previous life] and I was stone cold sober.
I won't relate them because I wouldn't believe me, I don't expect anybody else to. As a scientist I would want to back up any claims I make with evidence that I do not have. These 3 separate events are completely inexplicable but I live in hope that one or two might be explained one day. Perhaps I will find answers through neurology or psychology, as they may be some sort of defence mechanism. The third never will be explained - until I die and I might find out what happens for myself.
A final wistful thought: I wonder if I could ever learn to be as fluent in QualtSpeak as Alec? The phrase about 'old dogs and new tricks' comes to mind but then again, I have only had about a year of qualt training compared to 7 years of quant. 10 years ago I use to wonder if I would ever be able to master stats; and then it was learning to use SPSS, and I have done both so you never know. Perhaps Rossetta Stone will add it to their catalogue! Meanwhile I will keep reading the PDFs and the messages in here. It's very nice to be back - I have missed you all, but knowing I was missing out on all the fun did make sure I got 02 done fast!
Dear Alec and all
In joining the debate I will share my thoughts about the constructed self and phenomenology. I have never felt comfortable with Husserlian ‘transcendental’ ideas regarding stable “essences” of phenomena, independent of the observer. The reality of ‘individuals’ is based upon their perceived experience, influenced in turn by culture, education, etc. This is the story of the ‘self’, which is continuously being shaped, critiqued and rewritten. Interpretive phenomenology, with its acceptance of the person being situated historically and culturally, and experiencing being and becoming, seems more compatible with a dialogic and relational research approach.
Nevertheless, as you point out Alec, the researcher still adopts the role of seeking and imposing meaning on the data generated. The themes thus developed can assume undue significance and reification. Gadamerian phenomenology, with its emphasis on the ‘fusion of horizons’ between researcher and participant, attempts to close the gap between individuals, but the very process of research invests power in the researcher and can subtly maintain separation.
Returning to my earlier points … if the self is a constructed story we tell ourselves, then the very activity of research is a ‘wild goose chase’ … hunting a phantom. There is no ‘other’ … just experience (thoughts, feelings, sensations) arising in awareness. The mirage of the individual is a convincing dream, from which few wake up. It’s possible to see through the illusory subject-object divide, and to realise that ‘we’ are the sole Subject, enjoying (or not) the dream of separation. The activity called research may appear as part of the story, but nobody is doing it. We can write all we like about ‘persons’ (via dialogic, relational or post-structuralist perspectives), but shouldn’t forget that the self is “a convenient fiction and an ego-sustaining illusion”.
We are not who we think we are.
Graham
From: Narrative Inquiry
where social science meets art [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
Sent: 18 July 2011
08:19
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re:
Identity - when all the frosting is gone: who am I?
Dear Jo, and all,
Further to our dialogue about this, I’ve been thinking more about the ‘self’ strand with my academic head on, in relation to its ontological and epistemological status. What is ‘the self’ and how do we know it? So far, we’ve talked about this issue in performative terms, and as a convenient fiction and an ego-sustaining illusion. I want to talk more about another dimension which is concerning me in relation to my current research: the self as dialogic, as relational. It’s difficult for me to accept the humanistic, or Enlightenment/Romantic line of the self as ontologically prior to and independent of its inscription within culture, if culture is accepted in Geertz’s terms as the ‘webs of significance’ (webs of meaning) produced by human relationships. For me the lone self just doesn’t work. We are born into dialogue, a point championed by Bakhtin, and by Gergen and Frank who draw on Bakhtin in dialogic narrative inquiry and social constructionism respectively. This means that my words are never just ‘my words’. To paraphrase Bakhtin, a person never coincides with her or himself. We carry around loads of voices, which we more or less accept or reject (and Mead made complementary points).
Now, if this argument is accepted it has implications for research, and for relational ethics and aesthetics in research and more generally. We never find out about the researched self, as lone self, independent from her or his inscription within relationships, ‘cause there aint no such beastie. This makes research (and relational practices more generally, including therapeutics and everyday life) which is predicated on some inner, essential self a bit problematic (and I wonder what you think about this Graham, in relation to your interest in phenomenology? And do you see any tensions between the Buddhist view of ‘self’ and the Husserlian essentialist line?).
Postructuralism, emerging from the representation crisis in the human sciences, captures the project of the dialogic self. From a poststructuralist perspective, dialogue doesn’t mirror human experience. It creates it, while constantly deferring and transforming that which is being described. So, meaning, and identity, are slippery; never quite there, but never quite not there, and always contextual and tied into power and politics.
This has implications for representational practices in narrative research. As autoethnographer, the best I can ever do is offer highly reflexive, politically charged and contestable representations of my ‘reality fragments’. These need to be judged on their own terms rather than with reference to some assumed external and fixed reality reference point. In this regard, there are obvious issues for representational and audience ethics, as well as problematising the kind of qualitative research evaluative criteria which is based on external standards (and I wonder where your research stands, Lydia, in relation to Lather’s use of (drawing onDeleuze and Guattari’s work) rhizomatic legitemation?).
As narrative researcher (will be doing research on the back of Our Encounters with Madness, based on the text, individual chapters, and interviews with individuals about the experience of writing their chapters), I need to represent people’s texts and interviews in a dialogic way, and in a way that respects narrative selves as open, relational and ‘unfinalisable’ (Bakhtin again). This contrasts with much social science and qualitative research that exhausts identity and simultaneously fractures it by reducing participants to de-contextualised meaning units to back up researcher themes.
And I should try to manage my relationships with others outside of research similarly, but that’s another story and I think that’s probably enough for now.
Alec
From: Narrative Inquiry
where social science meets art [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of jo kirkpatrick
Sent: 15 July 2011 14:58
To:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Identity - when all the
frosting is gone: who am I?
And I thought it was such a simple question but once I took away name rank and serial number there wasn't much if anything left at all. I went online and it seems that this is actually a very old question, the ancients Greeks couldn't answer it and nobody has managed it since although in the 18th century Existentialist Philosophers threw up some theories. We had all better make certain that this group [and others we belong to] doesn't disintegrate because the groups to which we belong might be the only things holding our identities together. Anyway, it cheered up my depressed participant when I told him that none of us could answer the 'who are you' question. It further confirms my suspicion that we are what we do. It also seems that what/who we are doesn't matter, it is only what we do that counts. We are known, recognised and measured by what we have done, or at least by what people can see that we have done.
Best wishes Jo
From: Suzanne Hacking
<[log in to unmask]>
To:
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Fri, 15 July, 2011
1:34:15
Subject: Re: Identity - when all the frosting is gone: who am
I?
I did see this and I have been lurking but I thought I
think about it for a bit. I don't think it's an easy question, 'who are
you' at all and it suggests something about identity but also something about
context, you can't be the you without the who - the who can't exist if unique -
one can't be distinguished if one is alone, it's just a question of a
description. Now, to complicate it, you suggest take away the context of
the CV and frosting but that also abstracts you from the situation and you
replace it in your narrative with another situation (although you do a bit of
both actually), who's to say what's more relevant? I can see that you're
trying to show a human side, with a life away from the posturing of academics
because that side doesn't tell you a lot. Take away the context altogether
and what we are is fairly common to all of us, if we are there at all.
I've had this feeling for a while that we are but points of light shining in the
darkness, being connected to each other by fragile filaments, surrounded by
blackness, closer to some points than others. From a distance we could
look like some shining star and from close up so far apart and lonely.
That's if we're here at all and it's not all within our own minds. I've
often thought about the question of whether we exist, the postulation, that
we think therefore we am is not at all clear, we could be very different
than we think we am.
So my point is that because I went off on the
other track about the common stuff I didn't answer the who bit, or the you
bit. I might come back on this. Sue.
>>> jo kirkpatrick 14/07/11 11:45 PM >>>
Hi Alec, Graham and all Narrative Inquirers [should that be enquirers?]
Well the two attempts I have had so far from two really clever people read like a list of qualifications and accomplishments. In fact they are mini CVs, which is the opposite of what I wanted. I want to know who people really are, apart from the CV entries and without the frosting of their Higher Educations. Here is my answer as promised I have done my best to be honest, but I still could not separate identity from a context, perhaps one of you can do better. Alec's autoethnography comes the closest to what I mean. Who would think this would be so hard?
So who am I? [The short verion.]
I am Jo (Marjorie) Kirkpatrick BA BSc academic, scientist and all round smart cookie [and yes a bit of a know-all at times]! Nobody calls me anything but Jo, I think I am a slightly more laid back version, or am I, M. Rigg property owner, ex-business woman, ex-antique dealer, ex-wife and mother! For 15 minutes, once a month; and for 10 minutes every Tuesday I am a disabled, patient, a raspberry ripple, a service user/researcher observer participant collecting my pain medication. All of these and none of these are who I am really, as these all relate to different parts of my identity in a particular context.
Who am I when I am alone, sitting by a pond at dusk watching dragon flies, listening to their clattering wings, watching the tadpoles and fish I am at my happiest. Sitting on a beach listening to the sea and watching the waves hitting the shore, I feel at peace. Crawling around on the ground hunting for fossils, as I peer into the scene from millions of years ago I feel I know my place as part of the universe and for a while I am very happy with my own company. When I am alone in the dark I ask God to help me to find more strength and forgive myself and He always does. When I phone my bank and pay my bills I realise I am an important link in the National economy. When my daughter says 'Love you Mum' as she says goodbye; or when 3 year old Carmel first sees me and her face lights up as she squeals "Grandma's here!" and runs to give me a cuddle. It is then that I know I am a small but much loved, important and needed part of the life-cycle of the human race.
Who am I when I meet new people? An academic, confident, clever and knowing? A scientist who can amaze people and fill them with awe? But these identities are carefully constructed, the real me is just a human being who is rather shy but tries to be friendly and hopes others will try to be friendly too. I can see the humour in any situation and I am very good at laughing at myself. But all these identities still relate to the contexts and social interactions so perhaps the philosophers are right. They say that our individual 'self' as a solitary existence is an illusion, and we are just the shadows produced by the contexts.
Can you do any better?
Best wishes Jo
From: "[log in to unmask]"
<[log in to unmask]>
To: jo kirkpatrick
<[log in to unmask]>; "[log in to unmask]"
<[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thu, 14 July, 2011
8:58:58
Subject: RE: welcome to my list: Narrative Inquiry where
social science meets art
“Who am I?” … the most important question that can be asked! Any answer that arises in the mind is incorrect … just another concept. When the mind falls silent ... the answer is there.
Graham
From: Narrative
Inquiry where social science meets art [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of jo kirkpatrick
Sent: 14 July 2011
03:20
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re:
welcome to my list: Narrative Inquiry where social science meets
art
As a sort of pilot come practise for my course, I asked a
fellow student, to do me an emailed BNIM type interview but I got the wording
slightly wrong asking:
who are you? She wrote back to ask what I meant
and rather glibly I replied that I wanted who she is when all the other
identities like mum, wife, student etc have been removed and she is alone? I
realised after I sent it that this is one heck of a difficult question, so I
will be interested to see what one of the smartest people I know makes of it. I
would also be fascinated to know what some of the other smart people I know make
of it, such as the members of this group.
Where is my answer I hear
somebody muttering, OK I will do one too.
Best wishes Jo
From: Alec
Grant <[log in to unmask]>
To:
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Wed, 13 July, 2011
8:01:49
Subject: Re: welcome to my list: Narrative Inquiry where
social science meets art
Hi everyone,
And thanks for your very thoughtful comments, Graham and Lydia. Actuyally, the title of the article, ‘Whose story is it?’ was meant to be ironic, in that stories, as you rightly imply Graham, don’t really belong to anyone. I was coming at this from a poststructural angle – that storied identities are contextually inscribed within power and are contested and contestable, although often presented as ‘the real’.
I go along with the notion of self and mind as convenient fictions, and with self as verb. We do self, in a performative sense. And in a relational sense: this is who you are; this is who I am. I agree with you Graham. I think Eastern philosophical and personal ethical practices are incredibly powerful. In this regard I don’t agree with you, Lydia, that loss of self signals being left with nothing. Quite the opposite, although this is an understandable fear that people have.
However, meanwhile, there is a lot of relational , dialogic and narrative violence conducted day by day, in the name of common sense business as usual in the moral order. That was one of the things my article was about.
And I think the time- and place-boundedness of situated practices have a great deal of influence on narrated and performed identities. I first courted Buddhism after a fashion in the early 1970s, via Alan Watts. I was still in the RAF and home on leave. I told my parents who were horrified by this news, which was about as welcome as my paisley patterned underpants. Now, had I been born and brought up in Hampstead ....???
Best,
Alec
From: Narrative
Inquiry where social science meets art [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Lydia Turner
Sent: 12 July 2011
20:01
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re:
welcome to my list: Narrative Inquiry where social science meets
art
Hello all
I
thought I would comment on Graham's comment below which really struck
me
Is it possible that the 'self' is a verb, and not a
'noun'? We are busy 'selfing' ourselves into existence, assuming that we
are 'thinkers', when actually only thinking is happening ... 'rememberers', when
only remembering is happening. It's hard work ... constructing and
maintaining a self ... but could it be simply a work of fiction?
I guess this follows on well with the idea of mindfulness
and things only being here and now. The idea of transience might be
quite a scary one if we start to apply it to ourselves. If we don't assert our
existence then is there a danger that we are nothing, we are just a mind
existing without a 'being' around that mind, or maybe to pinch from deleuze and
guattari, "a body without organs", something formed and substantive but only in
the moment, before it then moves on. Maybe this is quite scary. We might
use 'I' and 'me' or 'my' to give ourselves substance and definition. Or if we
see ourselves as relational, rather than singular, we might say 'we',
which may acknowledge others in our 'being' but still nonetheless is a way
of defining us.
Lydia
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:41:02 +0000
From:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: welcome to my list: Narrative Inquiry
where social science meets art
To: [log in to unmask]
Hi Alec and
other members
Thanks for sending me your draft article for TQR. I
enjoyed reading it very much and it certainly deserves
publication.
I have a few comments to make, from a philosophical
rather than an academic perspective. Perhaps they will stimulate some
debate?
Your title "Whose story is it?" assumes that a
story has to belong to someone ... that there has to be a person to
own it. Could it be that the notion of separate individuals is a complete
illusion? The mind (aka 'ego') creates stories throughout life in order to
establish and develop an identity and series of roles. Along with these
manufactured identities comes memories, opinions, preferences, 'personality' ...
the whole elaborate structure of self and constructed reality, which is
maintained through social consensus and the ego's need for
security.
Is it possible that the 'self' is a verb, and not a
'noun'? We are busy 'selfing' ourselves into existence, assuming that we
are 'thinkers', when actually only thinking is happening ... 'rememberers', when
only remembering is happening. It's hard work ... constructing and
maintaining a self ... but could it be simply a work of fiction?
Without a story ... who are we?
Naturally, the
ego will indignantly deny the idea that the 'person' does not exist. It will
fight furiously to preserve the idea of 'me'. So
narratives are produced, preferred identities are developed, and social norms
and realities constructed. Autoethnography is an approach which provides
the opportunity to explore the nature and reality of our assumed identities,
rather than encourage the construction of yet more illusory
stories.
It might be asked that if we see through the
fictition of the 'person', what is left ? The answer is nothing
... no-thing ... which also means there's space for everything!
What do other 'persons' think?!
Warm
regards
'Graham'
From: Narrative Inquiry where social science
meets art [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of [log in to unmask]
[[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 11 July 2011 10:08
To:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: FW: welcome to my list:
Narrative Inquiry where social science meets art
Dear new members,
(apologies to those of you who may have received this message more than once)
Welcome to my new list. I should say a little about myself; I am very interested in performance and narrative, and the interface between science and art/humanities, working across autoethnography and dialogical narrative analysis.
I started this list because of a need to connect more with like minded people. this list is warranted because, at present, the two others in this area - Performative Social Science (PSS) and Narrative Health Research - cater for small and restricted user groups. PSS is not a discussion list as such and is used to showcase performative events. Narrative Health Research is, by definition, restricted to health research.
I envision this cross disciplinary list as a resource for scholars in the area of narrative inquiry broadly who are interested in the aesthetics of their approaches. This cross-fertilisation of social and human science with art and humanities may include, for example, autoethnographers, performance and experimental ethnographers, cultural and communication scholars with an interest in performance, narrative and dialogic narrative researchers, those using the arts in social science enquiry, to name but a few.
Just to get the ball rolling I’ve attached an autoethnographic piece which is under consideration for publication. Any feedback would be most appreciated.
I look forward to stimulating discussion and network building.
best,
Alec
Dr Alec Grant
School of Nursing and Midwifery (SNM)
University of Brighton
Robert Dodd Building (RD105)
49 Darley Road
Eastbourne BN20 7UR
email: [log in to unmask]
phone: 01273-643100
mobile: 07813-332537
http://www.brighton.ac.uk/snm/contact/details.php?uid=ad84
___________________________________________________________
This
email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the
University of Brighton.
For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________
This
email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the
University of Brighton.
For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________
This
email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the
University of Brighton.
For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________
This
email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the
University of Brighton.
For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________
This
email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the
University of Brighton.
For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________
This
email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the
University of Brighton.
For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________
This
email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the
University of Brighton.
For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________
This
email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the
University of Brighton.
For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________
This
email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the
University of Brighton.
For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________
This
email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the
University of Brighton.
For more information see
http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________
This
email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the
University of Brighton.
For more information see
http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________
This
email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the
University of Brighton.
For more information see
http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________
This
email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the
University of Brighton.
For more information see
http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________
This
email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the
University of Brighton.
For more information see
http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
___________________________________________________________