 |
 |
I often think there should be more poets on fire. On 6 Jul 2011, at 11:55, Paul Green wrote: > Maybe a Fire-Elemental would serve more effectively. > > > On 6/7/11 12:53, "Paul Green" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> I was intrigued by Tim Allen's reference to the Black Mass. Does he mean >> the classic C19 Parisian Black Mass, as evoked by Huysmans, Summers et al, >> complete with virgin, or he is a closet Thelemite, attending the Gnostic >> Mass devised by the Master Therion 666, which is not really black at all, >> more a deep shade of purple. And then there's the Mass of Chaos, devised by >> the Initiates of Thanateros... >> >> You don't really need a Mass, as such, to inter-act astrally with Mr >> Lumsden. An Invocation to Bartzabel should do the trick. >> >> Frater P >> >> >> On 6/7/11 12:31, "David Lace" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>> I'm amazed at how Lumsden got that job, too. Chris must have been going >>> through a mid-life crisis or something when he appointed him. To think that >>> Lumsden has the responsibility of vetting any avant-garde poetry submissions >>> from those poets still anxious to be associated with Salt is almost parodic. >>> Chris must have a sense of humour after all. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6 Jul 2011, at 11:33, Tim Allen wrote: >>> >>> Yes well, thanks for reminding us of this David. Anyway I have always >>> reserved my opinion of Lumsdon for when I attend black mass. I'd >>> forgotten the 'bristly old guard bit' - and yes I have been bristly >>> since I was 20. >>> >>> The main trouble with what he says, as befits a polemicist, is to >>> conflate two different things - the slow death of the listservs and >>> his very low opinion of the avant garde. >>> >>> He was right about the problems caused when Mallin and Byrne became >>> the moderators - Rupert Mallin was not really interested in innovative >>> poetry, old or new, and Mairead Byrne, although she had enthusiasms >>> for what was happening in the States (where she had moved to) had very >>> little knowledge about the British scene, and didn't seem to >>> understand what any of us were talking about. Add to this the fact >>> that both of them were highly opinionated people (not 'hands off' >>> moderators in other words) the result was friction and frustration for >>> all concerned. >>> >>> I still post here when something comes up that catches my attention - >>> most of the time the list is very quiet, which suits me, because then >>> I get some work done. I haven't moved on to the blogs etc yet, I just >>> haven't bothered and I might never bother. Part of the problem there >>> is that there are so many of them - therefore they don't provide the >>> same kind of focus as the listservs did. If this list closed down then >>> I would probably bit by bit begin to use the blogs. >>> >>> A question to anyone out there - do any of you know how and why >>> Lumsdon became poetry editor at Salt? One of the most vocal critics of >>> the innovative scene becomes the editor of what a few years back was >>> the main vehicle for that scene - a coincidence????? >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Tim A. >>> >>> On 5 Jul 2011, at 21:37, David Lace wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry, but I just can't resist posting this here: >>>> >>>> >>>> "[...] As for wider comments about BritPo and the listservs, I have >>>> some to make... >>>> >>>> The email based listservs have now had their day. I think any >>>> connection between the booming health of UKLIP and the crapulous >>>> BritPo is unproductive though. Even forums like this one will >>>> probably be dead in another five-ten years and I don't want to take >>>> anything away from the important, exciting business of connecting >>>> disparate minds which was done by poetryetc, britpo, wompo and the >>>> rest. But it's time to knock some of those old forums on the head - >>>> they have mainly become ad sites and, in the case of petc, just >>>> another terrible-poem-post site. >>>> >>>> As to Britpo specifically, it has been a soap opera with a dwindling >>>> audience for years. The reasons for this are complex and would take >>>> long explanations which would be as tedious as trying to explain >>>> Hollyoaks to someone who hasn't seen it since '02. A few reasons are >>>> obvious though... >>>> >>>> - as I've said before, though set up as a discussion forum for poets >>>> writing outside of the mainstream, all too often it has been a crap- >>>> shoot for puppies humping the ankles of the mainstream, and that has >>>> never been stamped on as much as it should have been - it has put a >>>> lot of LIP poets off joining and being tarred with that stick >>>> >>>> - none of the younger innovative poets want anything to do with >>>> britpo - and its whiff of jazz, elbow patches, fag-smoke and 70s >>>> politics - it's like walking in on your old folks doing it! >>>> >>>> - the major reason for its demise is the demise of the list-serv, >>>> but second was the change of moderators to Byrne and Rupert Mallin >>>> some time back - perfectly credible choices in some ways, but, well, >>>> not exactly 'innovative' poets, given the list's focus. Mallin had >>>> also, near to the changeover, made some disparaging comments about >>>> the state of UK/I innovative poetry - the last straw for many of the >>>> bristly old guard like Upton, Allen and Riley. >>>> >>>> - most of the posters who plaster their ads and poems over the site >>>> clearly never read the rest and don't contribute to the community - >>>> this sleazy practice ought to have a name really - I'm sure it does! >>>> >>>> - most of the posters left there have never even heard of most of >>>> the fabulous newer poets writing innovative poetry in the US, UK and >>>> elsewhere (and this will be splendidly proved by a clear lack of >>>> response to Chris' new post there asking about what is going on now >>>> - expect tumbleweeds). And most of them, oddly, are not even >>>> innovative poets but old bores of the self-appointed maverick >>>> tendency! >>>> >>>> Time to put it quietly to sleep I think, as happened with >>>> Crossroads, which had more credibility and distinctly more viewers." >>>> >>>> >>>> http://z11.invisionfree.com/Poets_On_Fire/index.php?showtopic=627 >