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Some music conservatoires have also already been in touch with HESA over this and are actively considering withdrawing our data from this exercise, due to several reasons specific to our specialist recruitment and the way the methodology of UCAS tariff scores and DLHE incomes collection impact on our students and their careers as musicians. For a similar reason we are actively exploring with HEFCE how the proposed 'Key Information Set' will also use some of this data. [I'm happy to explain the detail off list but I don't want to bore the pants off everyone with the specifics of music conservatoire student entry qualifications and the nature of their career paths once they graduate.] From the reply to the query from Julie, this request for data looks more to me like a fishing expedition to see if there's anything juicy, rather than a serious attempt to publish useful information in the public interest. The flaws in the data in both the input and output measure have been known for years and render it not fit for the purpose intended. However, Pandora's box has been opened on entry qualifications and graduate earnings by both the outcome of the KIS consultation and by the White Paper and we can expect ever more of these flawed methodologies in the future. Rather than put our head in the sand, we should be looking for alternative better and more robust measures of input and output that justify the public and individual investment in HE study. Regards Mike Mike Milne-Picken Academic Registrar Royal Northern College of Music 124 Oxford Road Manchester M13 9RD T (44) 0161 907 5331 F (44) 0161 273 8188 E [log in to unmask]<BLOCKED::mailto:[log in to unmask]> www.rncm.ac.uk From: Academic, financial or space planning in UK universities [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Julie Leeming Sent: 22 July 2011 14:16 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: HESA request for data from Parthenon Hi Are there any other HEIs out there who are concerned about the data request to HESA from Parthenon? This is the request which states the data will be used for "The creation of a value added table by HEI and subject" and will use entry tariffs and salaries. I asked HESA for more information as I wanted to know if this value added would be akin to the Guardian value-added metric. My concern is that this value-added is going to be calculated by the Parthenon group and not HESA, and so we won't know the methodology or results until it is published. I'm also concerned that the value-added won't be based on an individual students entry tariff and salary. The data requested doesn't even link cohorts of student. James McLaren of HESA has sent me the following further clarification from the Parthenon group... "I have spoken to Parthenon to ask for more clarification on how the data will be used. In essence they do not know yet exactly how the value added will be calculated as they first want to analyse the data and as such we would not be in a position to calculate it. Our contact at Parthenon has provided the following summary on data usage... "We will of course take advice from HESA about what the data will support - we have no interest in calculating bogus or unsound value added scores. Assuming we can get the data to work, we will * Model value added from the DLHE data against UCAS tariff o By course (because some courses will be more 'employable' than others). So we will compare say, English against Engineering across the country aggregated across all institutions o By region (because some regions have higher wage levels than others) o By course and by institution for key courses. Where there is sufficient data richness, we will compare course A at university X vs course A at university Y for the same / comparable UCAS scores. * We don't know exactly how we will present the data, because it depends on what the modelling gives us. However, our plan is not to produce a strict 'league table' but to bucket courses or institutions into bands. How finely we grade these bands depends on the level of precision the data will bear. The issue of matching cohorts is one we'll have to look at closely. In the main, we believe UCAS tariff scores do not vary greatly from one year to the next for a given university (providing it has a large number of enrolments), but we will need to see the data to know how material this issue is. We will of course have full disclosure on the methodology and any potential issues it produces. ". " Julie Dr. Julie Ann Leeming Deputy Head of Planning, Queen Mary, University of London, W110 Queens' Building, Mile End Road, E1 4NS 020 7882 5393 __________________________________________________________________ The Planning Unit has a re-vamped website, please visit it at http://qm-web.planning.qmul.ac.uk/ (internal to QM staff only)