Trish, Have I misunderstood something? Under FoI you definitely have to specify your exemption, but does that extend to Data Protection if you are a public authority? (I work mainly with charities, so this may be an aspect I've not come across.) s.7(4) of the DPA says: Where the Data Controller cannot comply ... without disclosing [third party] information, he is not obliged to comply ... unless: (a) the other individual has consented ... or (b) it is reasonable in all the circumstances to comply ... without ... consent s.7(6) sets out how you might decide what is reasonable, but it's not phrased in terms of exemptions from disclosing, and there is nothing in s.7(1), for example, that says you have to explain whether or why you are withholding anything. In any case I can't see anything that says you have to disclose if it is something the Data Subject knows already. In fact it implies that you shouldn't disclose if you have a duty of confidentiality to the third party, which you would have as an employer towards your employees. If I'm wrong, I'd be very happy to be put right, but I really do think that DPA and FoI are fundamentally different on this point. Paul Ticher 0116 273 8191 22 Stoughton Drive North, Leicester LE5 5UB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bailey, Trish" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 8:25 AM Subject: Re: 3rd party data known to SAR applicant Paul Im sorry but I would have to disagree with you on this with regard to redacting info. If you were to redact you are required to apply an exemption to cover the "withheld info". My question is how can you possible apply an exemption to protect information that is already known to an applicant - does it not make the exemption null and void? Many thanks Trish Trish-louise Bailey Audit & Assurance (Information Governance) (IG covers: Data Protection & Privacy, FOI, Information Security, Information Sharing & Confidentiality, Information & Records Management, Information Quality & Assurance) Telford & Wrekin Council Civic Offices Coach Central Telford TF3 4HD www.telford.gov.uk em: [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask] tel: 01952 382537 mb: 07528 969455 -----Original Message----- From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Ticher Sent: 02 June 2011 15:40 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: 3rd party data known to SAR applicant I've noted the comments from others about (a) that the data is not actually about the Data Subject (plausible argument), and (b) that it's nonsensical to withhold data the Subject already knows (also plausible). However, it occurs to me that (b) may not be nonsensical in every case. Firstly, I can't see anything which says you *must* disclose data if the Data Subject already knows it. That situation obviously makes it more likely to be disclosable, but doesn't require disclosure, unless I'm missing something. Second, I would distinguish between information which is available to the Data Subject on the internal e-mail system, and data that they can take away with them on paper and, presumably, show to other people (who may be legally privileged, but may just be their mates). Given that your Data Subject knows who the third party is, I would be inclined to redact the name, at least, because there is no detriment to the Data Subject in doing so but there is, at least, a warning that you consider the name of the third party deserving of protection. They could, of course, immediately say to their mates "that name they've blanked out is X, Y" but that would be their choice, not your doing. So I think there is a good case for redaction. Paul Ticher 0116 273 8191 22 Stoughton Drive North, Leicester LE5 5UB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Cooke" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 12:03 PM Subject: 3rd party data known to SAR applicant > All, > > I'd appreciate any thoughts from all you experienced folk out there on > this > one. > > Scenario is this. Data subject (staff) makes subject access request. > Emails to and from the data subject deal with 3rd party disciplinary and > grievance issues sent to data subject in the course of work. Some of the > stuff is sensitive data. Question is - should the 3rd party data be > redacted out in responding to the SAR even though the data subject has > seen > it and may even still have access to email copies? > > I've taken the view that it is not appropriate or reasonable to leave this > type of 3rd party data unredacted in supplying copies under SAR even > though > the data subject will have seen the material and indeed may have retained > it > within a work context. > > Is this the right approach to take in this particular circumstance? > > Grateful for any views on this. > > Ray Cooke > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > All archives of messages are stored permanently and are > available to the world wide web community at large at > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html > If you wish to leave this list please send the command > leave data-protection to [log in to unmask] > All user commands can be found at > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm > Any queries about sending or receiving messages please send to the list > owner > [log in to unmask] > Full help Desk - please email [log in to unmask] describing your > needs > To receive these emails in HTML format send the command: > SET data-protection HTML to [log in to unmask] > (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All archives of messages are stored permanently and are available to the world wide web community at large at http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html If you wish to leave this list please send the command leave data-protection to [log in to unmask] All user commands can be found at http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm Any queries about sending or receiving messages please send to the list owner [log in to unmask] Full help Desk - please email [log in to unmask] describing your needs To receive these emails in HTML format send the command: SET data-protection HTML to [log in to unmask] (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 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