 |
 |
Hi Anne, Well, yes, and there's been a good deal of debate re Clark's assertion that Protestantism wasn’t the formative influence on the association. It certainly was energized by the St Batholomew's Day Massacre, about which Diarmaid MacCullough and I put forth a modest thesis in a recent article I'm attaching (it's pretty long but you can get the gist of it by reading the first couple of sections and especially the last one). And the large point of Claydon's work as well as Steve Pincus' books is that the terms shifted in weight and meaning over time. Best, Lee On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 6:32 PM, ANNE PRESCOTT <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Thanks, Lee. I'll have to change some of my choronology. But wouldn't the > Reformation and the view of modern Rome as Babel have at least given the > association further vibes/energy? Just asking. Anne. > > > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Lee Piepho <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Hello Peter, >> >> Not unsurprisingly, historians have been working on England/Israel for >> some time. Here’s a selection from my reading. I’m sure members of the >> list can easily deepen it. >> >> J. C. D. Clark, “Protestantism, Nationalism, and National Identity,1660-1832,” >> *Historical Journal*, 43 (2000) claims that the idea of England as God’s >> Israel was a commonplace in the 14th century, notes that this >> providential framework means that Protestantism wasn’t the formative >> influence in establishing the connection (270). >> >> For a later period Tony Claydon considers the association in “The >> Nationalisation of the War,” *William III and the Godly Revolution*(Cambridge Univ. Press,1996), pp. 134-47. >> >> It’s also worth looking at Pasi Ihalainen, *Protestant Nations Redefined: >> Changing Perceptions of National Identity in the Rhetoric of the English, >> Dutch, and Swedish Public Churches, 1685-1772* (Leiden: Brill, 2005). This >> is a masive study that ought to be better known. >> >> And finally Claydon with Ian McBride get behind some of the issues >> involved in the identification in “The Trials of the Chosen Peoples: >> Recent Interpretations of Protestantism and National Identity in Britain and >> Ireland,” *Protestantism and National Identity: Britain and Ireland, ca. >> 1650-1850* (Cambridge, 1998), 3-29, esp. 12f, 25f. >> >> I’m late coming on this thread. Hope some of what I’ve given is helpful. >> As usual, it’s worth combing the notes. >> >> Best, >> Lee >> >> >> On May 2, 2011, at 11:34 AM, william oram wrote: >> >> I asked a local medievalist (Josh Birk) about the British Isrealite >> connection. Here's what he said: >> >> As far as I know, there several medieval references that connect various >> British peoples to Israel. The Scottish declaration of Independence in 1320 >> connects the Scots to the Scythians, and the Scythians to the lost tribe of >> Israel. This may be where the idea that the Stone of Scone is Jacob's >> pillar comes from, though I am unsure if that connection circulates in the >> 14th century. >> >> We see the theory addressed more specifically by Le Loyer in "his Ten lost >> tribes of Found" in 1590, and Saddler's "rights of the Kingdom in 1649", >> bopth of which make specific claims that the Isrealites came to England and >> became the English people. However, I know next to nothing about these >> ideas themselves. i know them because they are used by various 18th and >> 19th century groups that claim an Anglo-Israelite identity, which forms the >> theological underpinning for various white power groups, specifically >> Christian Identity, in this country in the twentieth century. >> >> Bill Oram >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Susanne Woods <[log in to unmask]>wrote: >> >>> Does anyone know whether the Wycliffites made any connection between >>> England and Jerusalem? The Wife of Bath had been there (thrice!), but I >>> don't see anything in the Canterbury Pilgrimage making the connection. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Barbara Brumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>wrote: >>> >>>> Florence Sandler (for example) discusses the use of Exodus typology in >>>> the Henrician era: "Inevitably, Britain's extricating herself from the >>>> papal authority and discovering autonomy within her own land found its >>>> Biblical analogy in Israel's Exodus from Egypt and entry into the >>>> Promised Land" (157). Her essay, "The Faerie Queene: an Elizabethan >>>> Apocalypse," appears in the collection, The Apocalypse in English >>>> Reformation Thought and Literature," which was edited by Patrides and >>>> Wittreich. >>>> >>>> >>> Peter Herman <[log in to unmask]> 04/22/11 12:15 PM >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> Does anybody know when the trope of England as Israel (common during the >>>> Elizabethan era, especially after the Armada) began? >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance, >>>> >>>> Peter C. Herman >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >