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A minor thing to add to this interesting discussion - the goodwill generated by paying even minimum wage for an intern is surely worth something. Ditto the goodwill generated by taking the trouble to inform unsuccessful applicants for jobs and give them feedback (price: a 2nd class stamp plus about 5 minutes of your time), another thing which doesn't happen nearly often enough. Science communication is a small field and you keep coming across the same people and organisations. The people you're treating badly today are the people you will be working with in a few years. Does it really serve your organisation in the long term if you get a bad reputation? Oli On 13/05/2011 16:29, Kat Arney wrote: > > To add my 2p, I also think it really depends on the quality of the > work experience available. I've heard horror stories about interns > used as little more than free slave labour, but also good examples of > interns being given meaty projects that give them a very useful > experience. > > The charity I work for, Cancer Research UK, runs an award-winning > internship scheme > (http://supportus.cancerresearchuk.org/volunteer/internship-scheme/ ). > Although these are voluntary, the charity pays travel and lunch > expenses. I've known of many of our interns who have subsequently > ended up getting highly competitive jobs within the charity sector. > > Also, from the organisation's perspective, it can actually take up an > awful lot of time and energy to train and manage interns (assuming > you're actually trying to give them a worthwhile experience that > benefits them, and not just standing them in front of a photocopier) > which costs the charity money. > > Anyway. I think it's important to keep having these discussions and > raising awareness of the issues. I agree it would be a shame to slam > the door on opportunities for people to gain valuable experience in a > highly competitive field, but at the same time, nobody wants to see > people being exploited. > > Kat Arney > > *From:*psci-com: on public engagement with science > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Jon Turney > *Sent:* 13 May 2011 15:21 > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: [PSCI-COM] Intern - At-Bristol > > Of course people want work experience, and sometimes simply as a > chance to try something out rather than as a path to a job. The > problem is keeping that going without reinforcing the culture of > working for free. > > One way to do that is to keep asking if the organisation in question, > even if it is a charity, really cannot afford to pay six quid an hour, > which I assume most of us who have (or once had!) jobs regard as > pitifully small. > > Another, occasionally, is internal pressure. Someone I know well > recently declined on principle to manage an unpaid intern in a company > which is cash poor but needed essential labour. Result: they agreed to > pay minimum wage. > > The principle, I should add, was not exploitation as such, but that > unpaid experience becoming a de facto requirement for certain jobs > means that only those who have cash, or parents with cash, can do them. > > A family ticket to At-Bristol, incidentally, costs £35.50. > > Jon Turney > > Science writer, editor, lecturer. > > Author: The Rough Guide to the Future (2010) > > blog(s) at > http://unreliablefutures.wordpress.com/ > > and > http://bristoljazzlog.wordpress.com/ > > www.jonturney.co.uk <http://www.jonturney.co.uk> > > twitter: jonWturney > ********************************************************************** > Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list > archive, can be found at the list web site: > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html You may also change your > settings and subscribe/unsubscribe to psci-com from the web site. > > Psci-com is part of the National Academic Mailing List Service, known > as 'JISCMail'. 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To contact the Psci-com list owner, > please send an email to: [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > ********************************************************************** > -- Oli Usher ESA/Hubble Public Information Officer Education and Public Outreach Department European Southern Observatory Karl-Schwarzschild-Strasse 2, D-85748 Garching bei München, Germany Telephone: +49 89 3200 6855 Mobile (Germany): +49 176 7648 2193 Mobile (UK): +44 7754 130 109 Email: [log in to unmask] Web: www.spacetelescope.org . www.eso.org Social media: www.facebook.com/hubbleESA . www.facebook.com/ESOAstronomy www.twitter.com/hubble_space . www.twitter.com/ESO_Observatory **The Universe at your fingertips** Download the free Hubble top 100 images app for iPad http://itunes.apple.com/en/app/hubble-top-100/id426922803 ********************************************************************** Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html You may also change your settings and subscribe/unsubscribe to psci-com from the web site. Psci-com is part of the National Academic Mailing List Service, known as 'JISCMail'. It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptible Use Policy: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html Email commands: 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example, send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following message: set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens] 2. To resume email from the list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message: set psci-com mail -- [include hyphens] 3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message: leave psci-com -- [include hyphens] Please allow up to 24 hours for these commands to activate. Remember that you will need to send commands using the same email address that you used to register on psci-com. 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