By allowing adverts for unpaid internships, we give support and encouragement to an exploitative and immoral employment practice. This is a real world issue that demands real world, practical, and, if needs be, unilateral responses from all those with an interest in it.

It is a general law of human nature that if one can get something for nothing, some if not most will go for it. We have even had a cabinet minister recently declare that taking on unpaid interns is justified on self-interest grounds, and express incredulity that anyone would think otherwise. Such candour in a politician is admirable, in a perverse kind of way.

What is needed is a clarification of the law, but as a start we should take a moral stand and decline to carry ads for unpaid positions that discriminate against those who cannot draw on financial support from families, friends or others. If employers wish to join forces and establish bursaries for trainees that they could not otherwise afford to fund on their own, then good luck to them. The current lack of such schemes does not justify exploiting vulnerable workers.

Even our Eton-educated Tory PM and his privileged Liberal sidekick have acknowledged that unpaid internships are wrong. Politicians are not easily embarrassed, but in this case they are decidedly so.

Please, and with all due respect, enough of the yesbuttery!

Francis

On 13 May 11, at 14:44, Booker, Francesca wrote:

Can I just take this opportunity to echo Rebecca. I too last year undertook an internship.

 

I see value in internships and the work experience and confidence they provide.

 

I don’t like the fact that currently more often than not they are inaccessible to people without the finances ( or in my case the friend that fed me and let me stay rent free!). But there does have to be a reality check here.

 

What I feel is more achievable is to push for internships that offer expenses and for a concerted effort to look for the platforms that can provide the funding for people who want to undertake internships and need the financial support.

 

I share Rebecca’s sentiments –a ban would not be constructive.

 

Thanks, Francesca

 

 

From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rebecca Hill
Sent: 13 May 2011 14:14
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Intern - At-Bristol

 

Speaking as someone who has had unpaid internships (it must be noted I was lucky enough to do them during my PhD with my supervisor's support) I'm torn by this debate every time it comes up, so I've finally decided to say something.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that these internships do amount to real work and yes, by that token, they should be paid. Obviously in an ideal world that would happen, and I'm sure the institutions offering them would agree. However, we're in the real world, and many of the places that offer them are charities, and/or have to run a financially tight ship. 

 

I was extremely keen to get into the field, and I could see no other way than work experience. I never saw a paid internship advertised (please correct me if that's out of date now) and so I was effectively stuck with doing something for nothing or just doing nothing.

 

All that a ban on advertising it on the list would achieve would be to stop people finding out where they could get experience. It's up to them to choose if they're willing to work for nothing - I know plenty of people who refuse to, but they don't seem offended by the idea that someone is advertising it. 

 

Unless everyone who offers internships/volunteer placements is going to agree to pay their interns, which I just can't see being feasible, this isn't going to change - is someone really going to offer full wages when so many others don't? I'd love to see it happen, and I imagine their application numbers would shoot up!

 

And for the record, the internships I've done for free have more than paid for themselves in terms of experience, networking, CV skills and actually just confirmation I definitely wanted to pursue this career path. 

 

Hopefully list members will take this as it is meant - me sharing my experiences and opinions - rather than an assault on their (admirable) beliefs about how internships should be run!

 

Best,

 

Beki

 

 

On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Cristina Jimenez <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Well, I think, it would be ideally better to offer paid internships, but good and short unpaid internships are not evil either, they can be valuable learning experiences, and they can be a good training option for people who can't afford a masters. 

Best,

Cristina Jiménez

-- 
Dr Francis Sedgemore
journalist and science writer
www.sedgemore.com

********************************************************************** Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html You may also change your settings and subscribe/unsubscribe to psci-com from the web site. Psci-com is part of the National Academic Mailing List Service, known as 'JISCMail'. It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptible Use Policy: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html
Email commands: 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example, send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following message:
set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens]
2. To resume email from the list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
set psci-com mail -- [include hyphens]
3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
leave psci-com -- [include hyphens]
Please allow up to 24 hours for these commands to activate. Remember that you will need to send commands using the same email address that you used to register on psci-com. To contact the Psci-com list owner, please send an email to: [log in to unmask]
**********************************************************************