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doesn't the claim that "there is no meaning to life" always presuppose a belief in meaning? . . . if "meaning" is itself a meaningless term then there's really nothing to bitch about or lament cause nothing's been lost, right?? m -----Original Message----- From: Film-Philosophy [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Keith Bergen-Aurand (Asst Prof) Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:57 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [FILM-PHILOSOPHY] Nihilism Mike, I'm not one to hold to intentionality either, although quoting someone talking against intentionality always makes me smile. Why believe Lawrence's claim? Anyway, I'm still not seeing Antonioni as an any sort of nihilist due to the very fact that he believes there IS meaning to life but that modernity just doesn't get it any more. Unless you claim that anyone who thinks we've screwed up the world or are missing the point is a nihilist, I don't see it. By all the definitions I know from philosophy, Antonioni is the opposite of a nihilist. Antonioni's films are engagements with lost meaning or delusions in regard to meaning. That meaning is still there; we've just missed it in the modern world. That's not nihilism by any definition. OR, that means just about ALL filmmakers are nihilists if their films critique their contemporary situations. Seems just too vague a way of thinking about nihilism. BKB-A +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Brian Bergen-Aurand Assistant Professor English and Film [log in to unmask] HSS-03-60 School of Humanities and Social Sciences Nanyang Technological University 14 Nanyang Drive Singapore 637332 Tel - (65) 6790 5381 Fax - (65) 6795 6525 ________________________________________ From: Film-Philosophy [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Frank, Michael [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:50 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [FILM-PHILOSOPHY] Nihilism could be . . . i've never read antonioni's words, only his films, believing with d.h. lawrence that you should never trust the teller, just trust the tale . . . but to my eye the tales themselves seem to point clearly to something like nihilism . . . in any case - as leslie brill points out in his work on hitchcock - nihilism is usually [always?] a disappointed romanticism, an expression of the failure of some dream of transcendence . . . even the phrase "the meaning-stripped modern world" suggests the possibility of Meaning [with an upper-case "M"] . . . if such a dream is seen as silly from the start there's no need to mourn its demise mike -----Original Message----- From: Film-Philosophy [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Keith Bergen-Aurand (Asst Prof) Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 3:17 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [FILM-PHILOSOPHY] Nihilism OK. I'll bite. How can one claim Antoninoi a Nihilist, even in the least strict sense? Antonioni's claims about his films after 1960 are claims about the need for an ethical connection. If you want to argue that Ant sees a need to go beyond the meaning-stripped modern world, ok, but his films argue for the possibility of transcendence in the face of meaninglessness, not meaningless itself. Brian +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Brian Bergen-Aurand Assistant Professor English and Film [log in to unmask] HSS-03-60 School of Humanities and Social Sciences Nanyang Technological University 14 Nanyang Drive Singapore 637332 Tel - (65) 6790 5381 Fax - (65) 6795 6525 CONFIDENTIALITY: This email is intended solely for the person(s) named and may be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it, notify us and do not copy, use, or disclose its content. Thank you. Towards A Sustainable Earth: Print Only When Necessary -- Film-Philosophy After hitting 'reply' please always delete the text of the message you are replying to To leave, send the message: leave film-philosophy to: [log in to unmask] Or visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html For technical help email: [log in to unmask], not the list -- Film-Philosophy journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/ Film-Philosophy Conference (6-8 July 2011): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/ Contact: [log in to unmask] -- -- Film-Philosophy After hitting 'reply' please always delete the text of the message you are replying to To leave, send the message: leave film-philosophy to: [log in to unmask] Or visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html For technical help email: [log in to unmask], not the list -- Film-Philosophy journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/ Film-Philosophy Conference (6-8 July 2011): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/ Contact: [log in to unmask] -- -- Film-Philosophy After hitting 'reply' please always delete the text of the message you are replying to To leave, send the message: leave film-philosophy to: [log in to unmask] Or visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html For technical help email: [log in to unmask], not the list -- Film-Philosophy journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/ Film-Philosophy Conference (6-8 July 2011): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/ Contact: [log in to unmask] -- -- Film-Philosophy After hitting 'reply' please always delete the text of the message you are replying to To leave, send the message: leave film-philosophy to: [log in to unmask] Or visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html For technical help email: [log in to unmask], not the list -- Film-Philosophy journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/ Film-Philosophy Conference (6-8 July 2011): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/ Contact: [log in to unmask] --