Jamie

I'm not 'looking at the social origins of poets and critics'. The problem isn't simply prejudice either, it's the inflation of class-specific values into 'universals'. The A.C.E report too seems to be both protesting a 'value-free' approach while presenting something that is 'loaded'. I still haven't had time to absorb it fully, I have a decorater's ladder over my head as I write :) , but those sections I have looked at with some care have agitated a little flutter or two  (I smile again, though perhaps with a hint of a forced grin).


On 30 May 2011 02:44, Jamie McKendrick <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Rather than looking at the social origins of poets and critics it would help to consider what they write, otherwise we'd be stuck at the stage of dismissing Orwell because he went to Eton. Prejudice is not the exclusive property nor a defining feature of the middle class - used in this way the term merely becomes a blurred category for everything that is insidious and oppressive, and doesn't so much challenge a class system, that undoubtedly exists, as comfortably reconfirm it. 
   Is the performance poetry scene in Britain "resoundingly middle class"? I haven't a clue, and I'm not at all sure what that judgement would ultimately mean. Does the literary establishment really seem to 'validate' " the cliched performance poem"? I'm not even convinced that the present British mainstream has such decisively "anti-modernist tendencies".
   Class surely has to concern questions of power, economic and social.  Most poets have precious little of either, but can certainly allign themselves - or do the opposite - in relation to the powers that be.
   The Arts Council has a certain amount of power to dispose of funds, to support or not support publishers, festivals, organizations etc. It seems to me a rather secondary question as to whether the compilers of the report are all middle class, as they may well be, but it matters how well they understand the art in question and how that understanding informs the decisions they make.
Best,
Jamie
 
----- Original Message -----
From: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">Tim Allen
To: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: Arts Council report on Contemporary Poetry

Dave,

Like Jamie I don't quite understand what you mean by 'the discussion of it (poetry)' with regard to the class thing. Both you and me have got ourselves pounced on on this list in the past for bringing the class question into things, but in this particular case I don't quite see what your point is. Of course poetry is dominated by what we used to call the middle classes - the majority of poets have middle class backgrounds, but at least there is a minority of us who come originally from working class backgrounds. I doubt though if we could say the same about publishers and critics. But this is no different to any other walk of artistic life, which in turn is no different to any other walk of professional life etc. However, your statement 'English poetry encodes social exclusion' is..... is what?.... strange?.....OTT? Do you mean all of it? And do you mean the poetry itself or the means of its creation and dissemination and validation etc.? The latter I would agree. The former needs explanation.

You might recall that some time ago on this list I tried to argue about the strange mix of working class and middle class attitudes that lie behind the anti-modernist tendencies of the British mainstream, things which have given rise to the literary establishment's seeming validation of the cliched performance poem along with a corresponding devaluing of the innovative etc. If I recall properly I think I talked quite a bit about the function of inverted snobbery in all this - but it gets very complicated - I don't think my brain is up to it these days.   

Cheers

Tim A.

On 29 May 2011, at 08:26, David Bircumshaw wrote:

I often recall E.M.Forster's witticism about Meredith's novels being 'the Home Counties posing as the Universe'. More or less just as often (I have no spurious statistics to offer) I find myself feeling something similar about modern British poetry AND discussions about it, although rather than the Home Counties it is rather the voice of a class which can still probably be called middle but doesn't think of itself as such. Indeed instead of aspiring to croquet and sherry on the lawn it might well consider itself 'progressive', and rather than having designs of ownership on the Universe it merely, modestly, covetously,  desires to be its arbiter. I am afraid too it is just as much a feminine as a masculine voice.
It is difficult. I love poetry in English. But entwined in it like a downed constellation, an Ophiucus perhaps, is a meanness of spirit and exclusion, from Chaucer's verray parfit gentil through Shakespeare and that churl death to Duffy and a mean time all round, and the resoundingly middle-class performance poetry scene, it's there. English poetry encodes social exclusion, and I find myself all too literally following a Biblical injunction and loving mine enemy. That loves me not.
Enough of that. It sounds merely personal. I don't know if Mark Weiss is still following this list but he has a lot of observations of how in the USA the validation by creative writing degree growth is something akin to a certificate of middle-class-dom. Validation, in effect, if I may use that word.
A particular memory fuzzily comes to mind: last year or the year before East Midlands Arts advertised for a relationship manager (they really did use that phrase). At 35 grand a year. A spokesman explained it was for someone to 'keep the region's writers in shape'.

--
David Joseph Bircumshaw
Website and A Chide's Alphabet
http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/




--
David Joseph Bircumshaw
Website and A Chide's Alphabet
http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/