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I have [l] in all those pre-/k/-environment words, and strongly enough that i've had no-lx-background students point it out as weird to them. Interestingly, i may be from the same dialect region as you, according to Kurath and friends (Virginia Piedmont), depending on where in Northern Virginia you're from. (I'm from Southern Maryland.) -- David Bowie On 12/Apr/11 4:06 AM, Katie Carmichael wrote: > Question for the l-ful palm/balm speakers: do you also pronounce the /l/ > in walk, talk, folk, etc? An l-ful palm/balm doesn't seem too odd to me > (in fact I'm pretty sure I can pronounce those words either > way--Northern Virginia native), but I have a colleague from North > Carolina with l-ful walk, talk, folk (like Rebecca's) and that sounded > really foreign to me the first time I heard it. > > Katie Carmichael > > On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 4:38 AM, Jeffrey Kallen <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > Fascinating discussion. In Irish English, where velarised or dark > /l/ is quite rare and is not part of traditional dialect, words such > as ‘palm’, ‘calm’, ‘psalm’, and ‘almond’ do not have /l/ in them. I > did a small-scale study once which involved speakers from Dublin, > Limerick, Co. Down, Scotland, the US, and England: relevant here was > a contrast between ‘bombs’ and ‘balm’ in a reading passage. The > four Irish speakers and the Scottish speaker used the [a] of TRAP > with no /l/ in ‘balm’, while the English and American speakers used > the back unrounded [A] of BATH or LOT respectively, followed by a > dark /l/. For ‘bombs’, everybody used the back unrounded [A] except > for the Ulster speaker, who used the open-o [O] as in THOUGHT. The > upshot was that ‘bomb’ and ‘balm’ would not produce homophones for > any speaker: for the Irish and Scottish speakers, the difference was > based in a vowel contrast, but for the American and English > speakers, the difference was signalled by the use of dark /l/. In > that same exercise, incidentally, the American speaker also produced > a dark /l/ in ‘psalms’, but none of the others did: the British > English speaker used the low back unrounded [A], while all the Irish > speakers used [a]. > > I had, incidentally, been alerted to the possible homophone by an > encounter with a retired surgeon from New Zealand, who had spent > many years compiling a dictionary of homophones. He had classed > ‘bomb’ and ‘balm’ as homophones, but I had my doubts. I don’t know > if the dictionary was ever published. > > Of course we can also find epenthesis between liquids and following > nasals in words like ‘film’, ‘elm’, ‘helm’, and ‘harm’. But that’s > another day’s work. > > Jeff Kallen > > > On 12/04/2011 07:00, "Peter Trudgill" <[log in to unmask] > <http:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > > The pronunciation with /l/ is quite normal in areas of the > southwest of > > England, where it is clearly a conservative feature and not a > spelling > > pronunciation. John Wells writes about it in his book, I think, > though I dont > > have it to hand. Rule number one: anyone with a query about > English accents > > should first look in J C Wells "Accents of English"! > > > > It is true that in N America many speakers, having one fewer vowel > than the > > rest of us, pronounce bomb and balm the same unless the /l/ occurs > in balm, > > wwhile we dont. But the rest of us might like to note that in the > relevant > > area a SW England, words such as the name Palmer have the vowel of > LOT or > > THOUGHT (Im not sure which - any native speakers out there?) and > not of TRAP, > > or START etc. > > > > > > > > At 01:51 +0200 12/4/11, Adam Schembri wrote: > > > In London, I worked with a Canadian from Guelph, Ontario who > tended to > > > pronounce 'palm' and 'calm' with an 'l'. I had always assumed > that this > > > was simply a feature of his idiolect (I have never heard it in my > native > > > dialect of Australian English, nor in southern British English), > so I was > > > interested to see your message about it possibly being more > widespread. > > > -- > > > Associate Professor Adam Schembri > > > Director, National Institute for Deaf Studies and Sign Language > > > La Trobe University | Melbourne (Bundoora) | Victoria | 3086 | > Australia > > > Tel: +61 3 9479 2887 <tel:%2B61%203%209479%202887> | Fax: +61 3 > 9479 3074 <tel:%2B61%203%209479%203074> | www.latrobe.edu.au/nids > <http://www.latrobe.edu.au/nids> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/04/11 7:19 AM, "Aaron Dinkin" <[log in to unmask] > <http:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > > > > >> Is anyone aware of any research they could point me toward on the > > >> pronunciation of words like "calm" and "palm" with a /l/? (I > assume this > > >> is spelling pronunciation, but it just might be a parallel > preservation > > >> of > > >> an archaic form.) Geographic distribution of the /l/, whether it > affects > > >> all relevant words, anything like that? > > >> > > >> -Aaron J. Dinkin > > >> Dr. Whom > > > > Dr. Jeffrey Kallen > Centre for Language and Communication Studies > Trinity College Dublin > Dublin 2 > Ireland > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The Variationist List - discussion of everything related to > variationist sociolinguistics. > > To send messages to the VAR-L list (subscribers only), write to: > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > To unsubscribe from the VAR-L list, click the following link: > http://jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=VAR-L&A=1 > <http://jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=VAR-L&A=1> > > > > > -- > Katie Carmichael > The Ohio State University > Department of Linguistics > 200 Oxley Hall > 1712 Neil Avenue > Columbus, Ohio 43201 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The Variationist List - discussion of everything related to variationist > sociolinguistics. > > To send messages to the VAR-L list (subscribers only), write to: > [log in to unmask] > > To unsubscribe from the VAR-L list, click the following link: > http://jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=VAR-L&A=1 > <http://jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=VAR-L&A=1> > ######################################################################## The Variationist List - discussion of everything related to variationist sociolinguistics. 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