Jane
Many thanks for that and appears more adaptable than an evac-chair.
To all, this is a useful discussion..
My question , and concern, around all non-fixed evacuation equipment that problems arise when the person(s) requiring their use have to work on different floors and they may be close to different stairways - you either need more than 1 "stair-lift" or you restrict the movement of the staff themselves. Again, what happens if you have more than 1 person needing assistance.
I hope people can appreciate my trail of thought and where it maybe going................ It's a pity those responsible for Building regulations cannot put themselves in the shoes of Building Managers.
What do people think of these - http://www.hospitalaids.co.uk/evacuation_equipment/ski_pad - I am told by some in the Fire service that they are preferable to evac-chairs, one advantage is that they are easier for untrained staff to use and are actually already installed in some hospitals.
What does the network think are the pros and cons of them and what are peoples experiences.
Have any MP's been approached to take this forward as one strand of response indicates that Building regulations need amending
Best regards and thanks
David
From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jane Simpson
Sent: 11 April 2011 09:34
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ACCESSIBUILT] Evacuation from buildings with more than 1 floor
http://www.baronmead.com/Pages/stairmate_summary.aspx
These have been put in a new school completed recently.
Regards Jane
Jane Simpson
T: 01484 413000/537407
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From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Fairburn, Susan - Oxfordshire Customer Services
Sent: 08 April 2011 12:34 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Evacuation from buildings with more than 1 floor
Hi Ian
Would you please be kind enough to send me these details too. Our colleague uses a mobility scooter rather than a wheelchair, but I'd still be interested in learning about other options.
many thanks
Susan
Susan Fairburn
Equality and Diversity Adviser
Customer Contact Team
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Tel: direct line 01865 323197
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From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Waterman
Sent: 08 April 2011 11:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Evacuation from buildings with more than 1 floor
Hi Martin,
Just a thought, and you are probably aware, but there are now more 'cost effective' evacuation chairs that enable a person to stay in their own chair.......
Not always possible I grant you, but a better option nowadays then a few years ago.....
And it cuts out that essential manual handling training which rarely seems to be covered sufficiently............
If you need any info I'll arrange for it to be sent from a manufacture we use.........
Ian
Access Matters
08456 121233
From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of McConaghy, Martin
Sent: 08 April 2011 11:15
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Evacuation from buildings with more than 1 floor
Hi David,
You are not alone! Your sentiments echo discussions I have had with many clients.
I advise clients much along the lines you have outlined here and empathise:
* Costs of training to use selected device.
* Potential cost of people handling courses (not all organisations adopt but if staff have to assist or lift a chair user out and into an evac device my thinking is they need to same training as care home staff to do it safely)
* Multiple staff should be trained in most cases, holiday, sickness and leavers present problems.
* Establishing the demand in buildings open to the public is very difficult (recently calculated potential for 50+ chair users in a uni building - find staff to cover that scenario!)
* What happens when you get to the bottom and the chair(s) is left behind?
* How many evac devices should be provided in public buildings where occupancy fluctuates?
In my experience the end users and management of the building, if convinced of the benefits, will easily exert their influence on the designers. I have never actually quantified it but in the sort of projects I work on (large scale) it usually becomes plain for everyone to see.
In relation to designers, I have some sympathy with them. They have complex requirements to be met and the building regs still indicate that a refuge and evac chair is the solution. In my experience, once an architect 'gets it' they will include evac lifts. The problem arises when the design has already been developed and it would result in changes.
(PS. On a new build college project having pitched my argument at the estates and equalities team the Estates Manager advised he would sooner value engineer the cladding and look of the building than loose the evac lifts).
Feel free to give me a ring if you want to talk through it.
Regards
Martin
Martin McConaghy BSc (Hons) MCIOB IEC NRAC
Senior Access Consultant
Property & Design
ATKINS
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Email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Thomas, David
Sent: 08 April 2011 10:56
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Evacuation from buildings with more than 1 floor
Hi All
A topical thought for you all.
(i) We are now quite a large procurer of construction work here in Aylesbury and use external architects (who for this thread shall be nameless) as designers. How many of you have experiences of using architects and how do you find their knowledge of evacuation issues other than "just get evac chairs".
(ii) We have a policy of using evac chairs and have noted some weakness in a Stategy basing all evacuation of anyone with any physical disability at any time in an open plan "hot desk environment.
My question is how many of you have watertight evacuation policies and personal evacuation plans, and on review, how many are fit for purpose?
My thoughts are:
That training should be practiced regularly, (typically) every 6 months talking out each person for up to 2 hours per year.
That evac chairs should be serviced annually.
For someone with the ability to manoeuvre between a wheel chair and an evac chair with trained users evac chairs are preferable to death and a practical tool.
On review here at AVDC I have established the following weaknesses';
When the organisation has a flexi system and the helpers (identified in the PEP) are not about there are problems - resulting in the person having to work on the ground floor or from home is restricted to ground floor or anywhere where level evacuation takes them to a point of safety.
That anyone with more severe disability who cannot transfer themselves between both cannot be evacuated by evac chair and the above point applies. This can include larger electric wheel chairs that can be heavy.
That sufficient evac chair users should be trained up to cover sickness / leave / lunch / flexitime /meetings trips to loo and sandwich machines etc .from preferably the sane floor- I have been told this can be up to 8 staff for full cover - and remember someone has to carry down the wheelchair unless the employer stores one on the exit floor. If this is not possible competent people from other floors from above should be available - not from below as this means two way flow on staircases etc.
That the lift should be adapted so that it becomes the solution , not the problem - this means 1 hour fire protection and independent power supply - or that equal access should be afforded on the ground floor/floor with level egress.
Thorough review of our own plan relying on evac chairs in a more flexible operation means that it is very beaurocratic moving onto impractical and would welcome comment from colleagues how we can overcome the limitations with evac chairs. In effect we are designing a system that can never be 100% suitable.
I would welcome comment from those who agree and disagree because I may be overlooking something obvious- I know many of you are busy. The following thread has really provoked me - http://www.workplacelaw.net/forums/listComments/thread_id/256
ps - has anyone done a cost benefit analysis justifying a new build of a protected lift against evac chairs? I know a conversion of an existing lift is over £25K -
In short I appear to be the only one with this view with the architects not wishing to enter into discussion - am I the exception!
Thanks
David
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