Perhaps not ‘chuck’ but yes, I’m happy to facilitate finding the appropriate service. I don’t think it is right to get involved otherwise.

 

Just as I wouldn’t pop out to buy someone a loaf of bread who had wandered in on the offchance the department might be Morrisons.

 

BW

R


From: Accident and Emergency Academic List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Ryan
Sent: 19 April 2011 22:07
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Wills in the ED

 

 

"To cure sometimes, to relieve often, to comfort always"  

 

Come on now Rowley, are you really going to chuck a yellow pages directory at him ? Next you'll be telling him that if its sympathy he's looking for he'll find it somewhere in the dictionary between sh*t and syphyllis

 

John

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: [log in to unmask]">Matthew Dunn

To: [log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 9:43 AM

Subject: Re: Wills in the ED

 

>>I agree with Rowley; the days of paternalistic medicine are gone. If anybody's it is the nurse's role to care for the whole patient. We are there to heal the sick and arranging wills is not our job.

Days of paternalistic medicine are not completely gone. When I'm the consultant on call I'm responsible. It may be the nurse's role to care for the whole patient, but if they don't know what to do (as in this case), it's my job to tell them. In a situation like this, I'm not convinced that the nurse, social worker or administrator would be much help. I also feel that we are there to do more than heal the sick. We are also there to comfort the dying. (We are also there to deal with people with no discernible illness and to explain to people that no, if there's a 6 week wait to see a dermatologist they can't get seen straight away by coming to an ED and that at best we know no more about dermatology than their GP does. But that's another matter and is more of a contractual than an ethical issue).

Given that testamentory capacity may well be disputed, there is a bit of guidance:

In a judgment in the case of Kenward v Adams,3 Mr Justice (later Lord) Templeman stated:

“In the case of an aged testator or a testator who has suffered a serious illness, there is one golden rule which should always be observed, however straightforward matters may appear, and however difficult or tactless it may be to suggest that precautions be taken: [the rule is that] the making of a will by such a testator ought to be witnessed or approved by a medical practitioner who satisfies himself of the capacity and understanding of the testator, and records and preserves his examination and finding.”

This is taken from http://nt6342.vs.netbenefit.co.uk/documents/PublishedBMJArticleAug07.pdf which is an interesting article, but it centres around what a GP should do if asked by a solicitor to assess testamentary capacity. The problem here I suppose is that it's quite difficult to get a solicitor at 2 am. There is also the slightly awkward question of which medical practitioner should be doing the assessing. Despite the earlier part of this post, I take Chris Kirke's point on board about what our job is: should we by tying up one of our staff dealing with this when there are sick patients to be seen? Or should the on call consultant be coming in at night? And if so, should this be part of NHS duties? (I don't know for certain, but my guess is that most GPs will charge for a testamentory capacity assessment) Or is there someone else with more expertise in the field who should be doing it? And on the practical side, how do you get hold of a solicitor for this out of hours? I'd guess that that's one that the patient can do for themselves or the hospital manager can help out with, but anyone know if there's a straightforwards way of doing it?

 

Matt Dunn

 

 

 

 

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