On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 2:31 PM, S Hamilton-Dyer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Hi, I posted the photos on the zoobook site http://zooarchaeology.ning.com/photo it was much larger than any of my sparrowhawks and yes much smaller than all the typical ones listed in Otto 1981 Distribution of such things as Sooties is always a bit tricky - yes it is threatened now but even so there were 6 breeding pairs in Abu Dhabi in 2007 with a known sudden population decline, who knows what the distribution was several hundred years ago?.
SH-D ArchaeoZoology
http://www.shd-archzoo.co.uk
On 17/03/2011 10:49, Sandor Attila wrote:
Hi there,

The find of either Sooty or Eleonora falcon is highly unlikely in UAE. Moreover, Sooty is smaller also. Neither are breeding in UAE at this moment, Eleonora's never did. There are one to two sight records yearly of Sooties there, less Eleonoras. Moreover, a CMC of 43,6 is too small for large falcons which may occur/migrate there (Peregrine, Lanner, Saker or Barbary, all have above 55mm). Based on the likely occurrence and the size, I would go for a female Sparrowhawk (Accipiter nisus) or a really large Levant's Sparowhawk/Shikra female (Accipter brevipes/badius). However, there are differences between the CMC of these falcons and Accipiter species, most visible on the distal end of the bone. Can we have a picture of the bone?

Best regards,

Attila
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:20 PM, S Hamilton-Dyer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hi Lionel, thank you so much! I thought barbary would still be way too big but not having data was only guessing - however limited in scope the download will still be hugely useful!
Sheila
SH-D ArchaeoZoology
http://www.shd-archzoo.co.uk
On 17/03/2011 10:01, Lionel Gourichon wrote:
Hi Sheila,

Yes, according to the size, it could be sooty falcon or Eleonora's (although the occurrence of the latter species would be unusual in UAE, except as visitor or because falconry of course), but what about Barbary falcon (F. peligrinoides)?
Unfortunately we missed metric database for all these medium-sized falcons. In Solti (1995, Plate XVI, Fig. 1), you can find a single value for the cmc’s GL of F. concolor (about 44 mm), very close to your specimen. F. eleonorae and F. peregrinoides might be slightly larger.

Ref.: SOLTI B. (1996) – The Comparative Osteomorphological Study of the European Small-statured Falcons (Aves: Falconidae). Folio Historico Naturalia Musei Matraensis 21: 5-282.
http://www.matramuzeum.hu/e107_plugins/docrep_menu/docrep.php?0.show.46.46

Best,

Lionel

Le 16/03/2011 18:30, S Hamilton-Dyer a écrit :
Hi all, I have a raptor cmc from UAE with Gl of 43.6 this is too small for anything listed in Otto 1981 and larger than any of my sparrowhawks, could it be sooty falcon? or Elenora's? or am I losing the plot - in which case maybe it's a cow ;) Have put photos on zoobook if you have time to look.
Cheers,
Sheila
--

Attila D. Sándor
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Babes-Bolyai University, Dept. Zoology and Systematics,

Cluj, Str. Clinicilor 5-7, RO-400006

Romania

http://bioge.ubbcluj.ro/

North-Western Journal of Zoology (http://herp-or.uv.ro/nwjz/)