Hi Maarten,

It is, indeed, difficult to say exactly what the pure SQUID noise spectrum is in the very lowest frequencies from MSR noise data only. However, the SQUID noise is basically white down to the point where it hits the 1/f corner. Neuromag would be able to tell you exactly where that corner is. The white noise level you can find yourself by looking at your PSD estimate or simply from the "Manhattan skyline" plot in tuner.

As far as the double grounding goes, it will affect the noise in the room only if as a result you get current flowing through the room walls, i.e., there is a potential difference between the two grounds. The double grounding does not really change the qualities of the room as a magnetic shield.

- Matti


On Mar 9, 2011, at 4:51 AM, Maarten van-Casteren wrote:

Hi Jeff,
 
I have been having the same problem.
It can be difficult to interpret empty room
recordings. We make one every day, after
tuning the machine, and we have a Matlab
script that will give noise, spectral plots and
covariance matrixes for all channels, but it
is not easy to get useful information from
those.
 
Basically you have two main sources of noise:
external noise and noise that's coming from
the sensors and the electronics themselves.
The internal noise is minimised by tuning,
but we have less control over external noise.
I wouldn't know how to tell them apart in
the recording, except that perhaps external
noise should be more affected by SSS, so
should be removed to a greater extend by
Maxfilter.
 
As a test I double grounded our MSR a few
weeks ago. This should seriously increase
external noise, as the MSR is then much less
effective. But I really couldn't see much
difference between the normal empty room
recordings and the ones made with double
grounding. This surprised me, I have to admit,
but there might be more analyses I can still
do on the data. Any suggestions are very
welcome.
 
Maarten
 
From: Announcement for the Neuro MEG list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Alstott
Sent: 08 March 2011 19:39
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SQUID behavior in an empty room
 
I should restate, for simplicity, that my question really is:
 
What does the MEG signal "mean" in an empty room setting?
In a setting with zero change in magnetic flux?
What would be some appropriate resources to draw upon to examine this more?
 

The answers could relate to the behavior of the SQUIDs themselves, or to all the other hardware downstream of them. I'm just trying to get a fuller picture of what is happening during such null cases.

On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:15 PM, Jeff Alstott <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hello all,
 
I am analyzing data from a Neuromag Vectorview system for evidence of critical phenomena, and empty rooms keep puzzling me. I am still quite new to MEG, but my analysis of the "signal" seen from an empty room, with proper shielding, shows signatures of a system at criticality. This is surprising to me. 
 
While I have no experience with SQUIDs, an initial literature search seemed to show that SQUIDs have critical dynamics when there is no external magnetic flux. Is this correct? What would be some further resources to understand what the MEG signal "means" in an empty room setting?
 
Thank you for your help!
Jeff Alstott
Cambridge, BCNI
US NIH, NIMH
 
 



---------

Matti Hamalainen, Ph.D.
Athinoula A. Martinos Center for Biomedical Imaging
Massachusetts General Hospital









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