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Jill, thanks so much -- yes, a strategy. This is very useful: <<that JA thinks we are most ourselves when we are talking - that said Romantics were less "high-falutin'" than presumed - how we fail to say exactly what we want in speech, it gets muddled, is unfinished, and that is what he is trying to mimic the movement of that>> All of which immediately reminded me of these JA lines, and the inspired use of "huh" as a sort of banana peel tossed into the middle of a ballet (and yes he does spell "sepulchre" that way): "How much longer will I be able to inhabit the divine sepulcher Of life, my great love? Do dolphins plunge bottomward To find the light? Or is it rock That is searched? Unrelentingly? Huh. And if some day "Men with orange shovels come to break open the rock Which encases me, what about the light that comes in then? What about the smell of the light? What about the moss? . . ." It's that moment of failure (or the mimicry of it) and then the rushing on again, that for me makes JA so funny and so endearing. Many thanks for this moment out of the "idiot minstrelsy" of the freezing San Francisco rain. Stay warm Stephen! Hoping for a cool-down in Sydney, Rachel > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetryetc: poetry and poetics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf > Of Jill Jones > Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 3:40 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: re-membering moment > > Hi Stephen, > > I think what he says, or how he says it, is ambivalent - but there is > a seriousness - in that the weather/climate is both a Romantic > preoccupation and a very quotidian thing. And I see JA, among other > things, as both camp collagist and late Romantic. So it is a strategy. > > We were just discussing this morning, because of the huge tidy up > we're embarked upon, how my mother wrote almost daily (I never knew > this until fairly recently) and her diary entries always began with > the weather. Now, this is probably not remarkable in a diary, but my > mother did write poetry and prose and was published just a little so > she was not only a private writer. Weather is strategy, scene setting, > and also one of the first things you (well, I) check on in the morning > - what's outside like, is it still there and how is the wind blowing, > sort of thing. It was often in my work tho' these days possibly not as > much. > > > Jill, in Sydney currently, where it's as humid as, drippily so, body > leaks you might say, and was way hot even at 2am, or now at 10.36am, > but we're hoping for a southerly change - already there's coolth in > the breeze, but we're not holding our breafs. > > > __________________________ > Jill Jones > [log in to unmask] > > website: www.jilljones.com.au > blog: rubystreet.blogspot.com > > On 20/02/2011, at 8:08 AM, Stephen Vincent wrote: > > > "I think he may have been both serious and less than serious in what > > he said." > > > > Yes. I also wonder about the role of "camp" in both O'Hara and > > Ashberry's work, > > let alone Andy Warhol. That kind of ambivalent twist - from cutting > > to quite > > subtle - in the use of language. The way neither Ashberry or O'Hara > > submit to a > > predictable sentiment - surely JA is joking about the weather, sort > > of! I am an > > infrequent reader of criticism so I don't know if the role of 'camp' > > (particularly in the 50's & earl 60's - before Stonewall) is > > discussed in > > approaching the work. But I suspect - as a strategy - it is in there. > > > > Stephen in San Francisco where it continues to rain cold and non > > stop - except > > for try to stop the leaks, and we're not talking 'wiki' here! > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Jill Jones <[log in to unmask]> > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Sent: Sat, February 19, 2011 12:00:36 AM > > Subject: Re: re-membering moment > > > > OK, here goes: > > > > Ashbery is talking about a Stevens poem 'The Poems of Our Climate', > > then goes on > > to say: 'I write about what is around me at a particular moment and > > obviously > > climate is one of those things. I am looking out of the window very > > often when I > > am writing. Rain is quite predominant. But it is just one of the > > ambient things > > that concern me when I write ... [he goes on a bit like this] > > > > Peter Rose then notes that some of JA's climate references are > > benign but at > > other times associated with destiny, futility, morality. And death. > > Peter draws > > a link to Peter Porter in this. > > > > So JA says: 'Of preoccupation with death? Well, I am preoccupied > > with the great > > themes: death, love, the weather. Whenever people meet on the street > > the first > > thing they talk about is the weather; it springs foremost in > > everybody's daily > > talk, including mine. And I suppose I write about those things > > because I think > > about them a lot and think other people do too.' > > > > The interview than goes on to discuss colloquial language (v the > > Romantics - the > > sublime etc) - that JA thinks we are most ourselves when we are > > talking - that > > said Romantics were less "high-falutin'" than presumed - how we fail > > to say > > exactly what we want in speech, it gets muddled, is unfinished, and > > that is what > > he is trying to mimic the movement of that. Then the interview moves > > on to other > > matters ... > > > > I think he may have been both serious and less than serious in what > > he said. > > > > Cheers, > > Jill > > > > __________________________ > > Jill Jones > > [log in to unmask] > > > > website: www.jilljones.com.au > > blog: rubystreet.blogspot.com > > > > On 19/02/2011, at 8:05 AM, Rachel Loden wrote: > > > >> Yes, thanks--lovely moment, as Doug says. The Ashbery quote I can't > >> find is > >> also from an interview, something about politics, boredom, and > >> poetry. > >> > >> How *does* he elaborate on the weather? If it's not inconvenient to > >> say. > >> > >> Rachel > >> > >>> Lovely serendipity, Jill. > >>> > >>> Thanks for the memory. > >>> > >>> Doug > >>> On 2011-02-18, at 12:25 AM, Jill Jones wrote: > >>> > >>>> Small serendipitous moment: > >>>> > >>>> For a number of years, I had been referring to a quote from John > >>>> Ashbery > >> about three > >>> great themes of poetry - love, death and the weather. I knew I had > >>> it > >> slightly wrong, and also > >>> knew I had read it in something I had around and about me at one > >>> stage of > >> my life. I also > >>> thought it had been lost when I had maybe lent it to someone and a > >>> fire > >> had destroyed a lot > >>> of their papers. There was nary a reference to it via online or > >>> library > >> search,etc. I even > >>> started to think I'd dreamed it up. > >>>> > >>>> Well, blow me down, here I am with it before me. The result of a > >>>> huge > >> cleanout. It's in a > >>> supplement to an old magazine that our 'national broadcaster', the > >>> ABC, > >> used to publish, > >>> called '24 Hours'. Any Aussies remember this wee journal? But > >>> that's why > >> the quote never > >>> turns up in an online search. > >>>> > >>>> And the quote - from an interview with JA conducted by Peter Rose > >>>> at the > >> Melbourne > >>> Writers Festival in 1992 - 'Well, I am preoccupied with the great > >>> themes: > >> death, love, the > >>> weather.' And he elaborates a little further, on the weather. > >>>> > >>>> So, a small thing, but I now have it. As, among other things, I am > >> giving a lecture on > >>> Ashbery this semester, I am happy to have a source for quotes/ > >>> elaborations > >> that's not always > >>> used. But happier to have this before me - so I know I slightly > >> misremembered it, but that it > >>> was not a complete figment. > >>>> > >>>> Misremembering can be a good thing. But re-membering this one is as > >> good. > >>>> > >>>> __________________________ > >>>> Jill Jones > >>>> [log in to unmask] > >>>> > >>>> website: www.jilljones.com.au > >>>> blog: rubystreet.blogspot.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> Douglas Barbour > >>> [log in to unmask] > >>> > >>> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/ > >>> http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/ > >>> > >>> Latest books: > >>> Continuations (with Sheila E Murphy) > >>> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=664 > >>> Wednesdays' > >>> > >> http://abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-from-aboveground-press_10.h > >> tml > >>> > >>> Language has unmistakably made plain that memory is not an > >>> instrument for > >> exploring the > >>> past but its theater. It is the medium of past experience, just as > >>> the > >> earth is the medium in > >>> which dead cities lie buried. > >>> > >>> Walter Benjamin