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I think that there is much merit in what is written here. I have always been sympathetic to a reasonable charge being made. The point about rights of reproduction v. copyright is very well made. Many record offices (to use a generic term) hold material which is not public property - such as family papers - which the owners may have stipulated, as a condition of deposit, that copying is only allowed on the basis of the user signing to say that he will not use the material for other than private purposes. Matters are always more complex than they appear at first sight ... Casting no aspersions on the readers of this website, I'm afraid that it is my experience that the detail of the Copyright law is hardly understood in certain quarters, and it is easier to have a blanket catch all form to sign rather than to try to be flexible. The same principle goes for the Data Protection Act, Health and Safety - I could go on. Yo Hodson ----- Original Message ----- From: Huw Thomas To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Digital Camera Trial, Cambridge University Library Map Room If I can reply in defence of the Libraries. 1) Running a large collection costs a lot of money, we do have a collection box, but it wouldn't even begin to cover the costs associated with obtaining, cataloguing, conserving, storing and making available to the public our collections. Government cuts have left libraries in an even more perilous financial state than ever and we need to increase revenue any way we can to make up the shortfall. The fact that you are using your own equipment doesn't mean that the Library is not incurring costs; it takes a large amount of money just to keep the lights on and there are also staffing costs - somebody has to deal with enquiries and fetch the items from store. 2) As regards reproduction rights - I use this term rather than copyright as it is more appropriate - if you wish to publish an item from a library's collection then regardless of whether the copies were made by you or by the library's staff you are still using material from that library's collection, there is usually a fee involved in this. As government funding decreases alternative revenue streams must be developed in order to make up some of the shortfall. I don't think some people fully appreciate the magnitude of the cuts facing many of us come next April - if you want this material to be maintained and made available for study then there is a price - if it isn't paid by the government through general taxation then Libraries must find other ways of continuing their activities - the alternative is less material held in less accessible conditions - and nobody wants that. Bosman, drs. J.M. wrote: > Dear all, > > > > I certainly support Oliver’s view here and am surprised at the amount of > support for measures that make the burden higher for people to use > documents that were probably acquired with and are still taken care of > with taxpayer’s money. I would encourage libraries and map rooms to > promote the use of their collections and by doing so win continued > support of the public. Maybe I am naïve but I see > > > > - no reason for charging if people use their own equipment; > > - no reason to let people sign a copyright declaration: the > copyright is already on the document (if it has not run out by now) and > users have to stick to that already; we are not letting people sign a > copyright declaration if they want to copy a chapter from a book, so why > would we have different norms for maps? > > - no reason to prohibit the use of tripods as long as people do > not disturb others. > > > > Of course, you can: > > > > - make exceptions if there is a danger of valuable original > documents being harmed > > - ask for people to support the library financially > > - offer high quality scans for valuable and often asked for > items that are out of copyright (as is being done in many places already > of course) > > > > Best, > > > > Jeroen > > ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬**NL**▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ > > Jeroen Bosman, vakspecialist Geowetenschappen > > Universiteitsbibliotheek Utrecht <http://www.uu.nl/bibliotheek> > > email: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > telefoon: 030-2536613 > > post: Postbus 80124, 3508 TC, Utrecht > > bezoek: kamer 2.50, Heidelberglaan 3. Utrecht > > web: Jeroen Bosman > <http://www.uu.nl/university/library/nl/vakgebieden/geo/Pages/ContactBosman.aspx> > > titter: @jeroenbosman > > ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬**EN**▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ > > Jeroen Bosman, subject librarian Geography&Geoscience > > Utrecht University Library <http://www.uu.nl/library> > > email: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > telephone: +31.30.2536613 > > mail: Postbus 80124, 3508 TC, Utrecht, The Netherlands > > visiting address: room 2.50, Heidelberglaan 3. Utrecht > > web: Jeroen Bosman > <http://www.uu.nl/university/library/en/disciplines/geo/Pages/ContactBosman.aspx> > > twitter: @jeroenbosman > > ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ > > **P**** ****Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail** > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* A forum for issues related to map & spatial data librarianship > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Oliver, Richard > *Sent:* Friday, February 04, 2011 6:11 PM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: Digital Camera Trial, Cambridge University Library Map Room > > > > Hear, hear, Yo! > > > > My experience is that the best way to get optimum results is to take a > limited number of shots and to then download them onto a laptop, where > they can be quality-checked and then, if necessary, reshot before the > item is returned. Usually with experience there are few retakes, but > occasional documents give a lot of trouble. (A particular 'swine' - not > a map, but map-related - is the 'elusive' Wharton Committee report on > the Geological Survey of 1900, in OS 1 in The National archives.) > > > > Charging for digital cameras seems counter-productive. Yes, one pays for > photrocopies, but only at the margibnal cost of production, and often > for an item that isn't 100% satisfactory. Use of digital cameras needs > to be seen positively, as a conservation measure: it saves the document > havin g to be produced again, or having it out for longer than necessary. > > > > Richard Oliver > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* A forum for issues related to map & spatial data librarianship > [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Yolande Hodson [[log in to unmask]] > *Sent:* Friday, February 04, 2011 4:42 PM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: Digital Camera Trial, Cambridge University Library Map Room > > I have spent the last ten years working in many of the County Record > Offices, most of whom have allowed digital photography but with a > variety of rules, regulations etc. I have found that the charge has > varied between £5 and £20 a day. Occasionally a charge was made per > image but I think it was soon realised that that was unrealistic. Many > is the time I have taken say 200 images and just been charged the daily > rate. I think it is reasonable to make a charge, after all, one would > otherwise be paying for photocopies etc. > > > > I have found that one always has to sign one's life away as far as > copyright and so forth is concerned and I do not see that this should be > a problem for the individual. The best record office from the point of > view of offering digital photography is, of course, The National > Archives, which introduced this free facility about 8 years ago under > the excellent auspices of its then redoubtable Keeper, Sarah Tyacke. If > only the British Library and others would follow suit life would be > complete. In my view, the ability to take one's own digital photography > of maps and documents in libraries and other collections is one of the > greatest contributions to the advancement of scholarship in the last decade. > > > > Yo Hodson > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Richard Abbott <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > *To:* [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > *Sent:* Friday, February 04, 2011 4:15 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Digital Camera Trial, Cambridge University Library > Map Room > > > > > An alternative way of charging is to be introduced in Birmingham > Central Library from April. This is to charge for a day permit, > without restriction on the number of images. Details have not quite > been finalised, but we're provisionally setting the charge as £2.00 > per day. Anyone using a digital camera already has to sign a > copyright etc. declaration and keep a log of items photographed; > each item must be approved by a member of library staff before being > photographed. > > Richard Abbott > > Archives and Heritage > Central Library > Chamberlain Square > Birmingham > B3 3HQ > > tel 0121 303 4549 > fax 0121 464 1176 > e-mail [log in to unmask] > > > *Huw Thomas <[log in to unmask]>* > Sent by: A forum for issues related to map & spatial data > librarianship <[log in to unmask]> > > 04/02/2011 14:30 > > Please respond to > A forum for issues related to map & spatial data librarianship > <[log in to unmask]> > > > > To > > > > [log in to unmask] > > cc > > > > > > Subject > > > > Re: Digital Camera Trial, Cambridge University Library Map Room > > > > > > > > > > > > Anne, > > Interesting that you are not charging we have been allowing this for > some time, but we do charge people. > > We have recently updated our guidelines for use of reader's cameras and > the new ones can be found by following the link towards the bottom of > the following webpage: http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=readers > > Huw > > Anne Taylor wrote: > > Dear all > > > > (Apologies for cross posting) > > > > I am pleased to announce that three readings rooms - including the Map > > Room - in Cambridge University Library are allowing readers, on a > trial > > basis, to use their own cameras to take photographs of items consulted > > in those reading rooms. > > > > The normal restrictions apply - no flash, no noise, no tripods - > and we > > hope that the trial will be a success, but there is no guarantee > that it > > will become permanent! > > > > The readings rooms taking part in the trial are: Rare Books, > > Manuscripts, Maps. > > > > The trial is for the Lent Term (until Friday 18 March 2011). > > > > There is no charge but you need to fill in our new form and the > pictures > > cannot be used for publication. > > > > Anne > > > > -- > Huw Thomas, FRGS, FBCartS > Pennaeth Uned Defnyddiau Di-destun Head of Non-Text Materials Unit > a Llyfrgellydd Mapiau and Map Librarian > > Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru National Library of Wales > [log in to unmask] Ffôn / Phone 01970 632990 > > Un o lyfrgelloedd mawr y byd One of the great libraries of > the world > http://www.llgc.org.uk/ > > > *********************************************************************** > > > *********************************************************************** > > The information contained within this e-mail (and any attachment) > sent by Birmingham City Council is confidential and may be legally > privileged. It is intended only for the named recipient or entity to > whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient please > accept our apologies and notify the sender immediately, or telephone > +(44)(0)121 464 4444. Unauthorised access, use, disclosure, storage > or copying is not permitted and may be unlawful. Any e-mail > including its content may be monitored and used by Birmingham City > Council for reasons of security and for monitoring internal > compliance with the office policy on staff use. E-mail blocking > software may also be used. Any views or opinions presented are > solely those of the originator and do not necessarily represent > those of Birmingham City Council. We cannot guarantee that this > message or any attachment is virus free or has not been intercepted > and amended. > > *********************************************************************** > -- Huw Thomas, FRGS, FBCartS Pennaeth Uned Defnyddiau Di-destun Head of Non-Text Materials Unit a Llyfrgellydd Mapiau and Map Librarian Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru National Library of Wales [log in to unmask] Ffôn / Phone 01970 632990 Un o lyfrgelloedd mawr y byd One of the great libraries of the world http://www.llgc.org.uk/