Interestingly I was not intimating that surveillance or secret surveillance was connected to determining how ones personal data may be used. Clearly, ordinarily, a DP purpose attempts to provide the determination you speak of, but fails as often as individuals themselves do to be able to apply a level of confidentiality to personal data they may share with others. Plainly one could apply very similar interpretive arguments to the word surveillance and in that same vein it is equally possible to argue that personal data/information cannot affect privacy once it has been shared with others. Those and other possible interpretive issues however do not dilute the basic message being communicated by the definition as a whole; In some spheres ordinary surveillance is now perceived as not intruding on privacy and that restrictions are the driving force behind individual privacy when applied to personal data, which appears a very simplistic understanding of privacy. On each reading of the definition the question has occurred to me “is this a joke”. Your analogies of peeping tom and person viewing personal data are quite apt in many senses, as the legal sphere attempts to restrict normal inquisitiveness about personal data in many of the principles, the definitions, interpretations, guidance, and offences as a way of implementing respect, and in that way contributes to that definition and the allegations that DP suppresses innovation. A pedantic observation which could be intimated from this is ‘respect is dying’. However these definitional diversions do only serve to dilute the issue being raised, which is a definition from in the wild indicating an environmental impact separately made by the progress of surveillance and data protection revealing at the least a chasm in the educational environment which appears to be being widened rather than narrowed by current processes. Ian W -----Original Message----- From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues [mailto:data- [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bradshaw, Phillip Sent: 05 February 2011 20:22 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [data-protection] A 21st century definition of privacy. Ian I do not think I would agree with your analysis of the definition. I would read the first 'and' in a disjuntive way. i.e. Determing whether, when, how, and to whom, one's personal or organizational information is to be revealed, is entirly separate from secret (or any) surveillance. The two parts are needed. The second is not enough on its own as it would not cover the 'peeping tom', personal or official, who never revealed anything . -----Original Message----- From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues [mailto:[log in to unmask] AC.UK] On Behalf Of Ian Welton Sent: 05 February 2011 19:28 To: data- [log in to unmask] Subject: [data-protection] A 21st century definition of privacy. privacy Definition In general, the right to be free from secret surveillance .... http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/privacy.htmlThe word 'general' is further refined to mean - applies to everybody. The item has existed like this for some time and from the complete entry one is drawn towards considering the definition being legally determined as a result of the public surveillance environment and restrictive data protection regulations rather than any wish to respect peoples privacy. And it is a view which in many spheres today could not be said to be lacking or incorrectly interpreted. For anybody unable to access the web the whole text, less the further definition links, is reproduced below. 'In general, the right to be free from secret surveillance and to determine whether, when, how, and to whom, one's personal or organizational information is to be revealed. In specific, privacy may be divided into four categories (1) Physical: restriction on others to experience a person or situation through one or more of the human senses; (2) Informational: restriction on searching for or revealing facts that are unknown or unknowable to others; (3) Decisional: restriction on interfering in decisions that are exclusive to an entity; (4) Dispositional: restriction on attempts to know an individual's state of mind.' Ian W ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All archives of messages are stored permanently and are available to the world wide web community at large at http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html If you wish to leave this list please send the command leave data- protection to [log in to unmask] All user commands can be found at http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm Any queries about sending or receiving messages please send to the list owner [log in to unmask] Full help Desk - please email [log in to unmask] describing your needs To receive these emails in HTML format send the command: SET data-protection HTML to [log in to unmask] (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ********************************************************************** Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of the Council of the City and County of Cardiff shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. All e-mail sent to or from this address will be processed by Cardiff County Councils Corporate E-mail system and may be subject to scrutiny by someone other than the addressee. ********************************************************************** Mae'n bosibl bod gwybodaeth gyfrinachol yn y neges hon. Os na chyfeirir y neges atoch chi'n benodol (neu os nad ydych chi'n gyfrifol am drosglwyddo'r neges i'r person a enwir), yna ni chewch gopio na throsglwyddo'r neges. Mewn achos o'r fath, dylech ddinistrio'r neges a hysbysu'r anfonwr drwy e-bost ar unwaith. Rhowch wybod i'r anfonydd ar unwaith os nad ydych chi neu eich cyflogydd yn caniatau e-bost y Rhyngrwyd am negeseuon fel hon. Rhaid deall nad yw'r safbwyntiau, y casgliadau a'r wybodaeth arall yn y neges hon nad ydynt yn cyfeirio at fusnes swyddogol Cyngor Dinas a Sir Caerdydd yn cynrychioli barn y Cyngor Sir nad yn cael sel ei fendith. Caiff unrhyw negeseuon a anfonir at, neu o'r cyfeiriad e-bost hwn eu prosesu gan system E-bost Gorfforaethol Cyngor Sir Caerdydd a gallant gael eu harchwilio gan rywun heblaw'r person a enwir. ********************************************************************** -- Scanned by iCritical. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All archives of messages are stored permanently and are available to the world wide web community at large at http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html If you wish to leave this list please send the command leave data-protection to [log in to unmask] All user commands can be found at http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm Any queries about sending or receiving messages please send to the list owner [log in to unmask] Full help Desk - please email [log in to unmask] describing your needs To receive these emails in HTML format send the command: SET data-protection HTML to [log in to unmask] (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^