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Hi James, The online "Perseus dictionary headwords" is usually where I start looking for etymology and translation of a word. It's also essential to have the hardcopy Lewis and Short 'A Latin Dictionary' on hand. But the Perseus online word search brings up their entries too, so this is enough citation for your purposes most likely. This link should take you to the definition of "vates," which says, "I. gen. plur. vatium, id. Leg. 2, 8, 20 al.), comm. perh. kindr. with Sanscr. vad, dicere, loqui; cf.: vas, vadis, and old Irish, fáith, a foreteller, seer, soothsayer, prophet." http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3Dvates You can also look up "vaticinatio": I. a foretelling, soothsaying, prophesying; a prediction, vaticination, Cic. N. D. 2, 3, 10; id. Att. 8, 12, 1; Caes. B. G. 1, 50; Val. Max. 1, 8, 10; Suet. Caes. 59; Plin. Ep. 6, 20, 19. A Latin Dictionary. Founded on Andrews' edition of Freund's Latin dictionary. revised, enlarged, and in great part rewritten by. Charlton T. Lewis, Ph.D. and. Charles Short, LL.D. Oxford. Clarendon Press. 1879. And "vaticinatrix": I. a prophetess, female fortune-teller, Serv. ad Verg. E. 9, 13; id. A. 3, 443; Mythogr. Lat. 1, 10; 3, 3, 9 Bode. A Latin Dictionary. Founded on Andrews' edition of Freund's Latin dictionary. revised, enlarged, and in great part rewritten by. Charlton T. Lewis, Ph.D. and. Charles Short, LL.D. Oxford. Clarendon Press. 1879. So the root "vates" is kindred with the Sanskrit "vad" . . . . think the "Vedas" ! ******** Here's how Jacques Lefèvre d'Étaples uses the term in 'De Magia naturali' Book II, when he is attempting to justify Magic and Kabbalah to his fellow Catholics: "Qui numeri ad arcana et Magorum et Vatum sint apti: Capitulum 14 Nec iniuria profecto Magi contendunt.Nam contendunt secretiores Hebrei ex divinorum nomini elementis cum qui arcanam eorum Cabalam profunde calleret, posse omnis sapiens secreta elicere et omnia miracula super Magos operari." "How the numbers of the Magi and the Seers are being applied to the sacred mystery: Chapter 14 Neither surely should we contend the Magi unjust. Nor should we contend the secret teachings of the Hebrews unjust, who, out of the divine elemental numbers with which the mystery of their profound Kabbalah is understood, are capable of eliciting the secrets of all wisdom and of working all wonders of the highest Magician." (Evans II:89-90 f. 217r-218v Ch. 14) Here, Lefèvre would clearly be seen as a "Judaising" heretic by the political arm of the Renaissance Church. And you can see perhaps why some of our contemporary Catholics would not want the root "vad," whether "seer, sooth-sayer, or fortune-teller" associated with the "Vatican": because it was used in reference to Catholicism's predecesor Judaism. To associate "vad" with "Vatican" today could still be seen by some conservative Catholics as "Judaising." All Best, Kathryn ----- Original Message ----- From: "James John Bell" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 12:05 AM Subject: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] etymology for vatican - "place of sorcerers"? Hey folks, working on an essay, have a couple quick questions and thought someone on the list would know - 1. Looking for the correct etymology for "Vatican". Popular mainstream sources all explicitly say "nothing to do here" or "not to be confused" with "sooth-saying". Alternative sources claim that the word Vatican comes from Vaticinia which means ³place of divinations² or ³place of the sorcerers.² 2. How many telescopes around the world does the Vatican fund/own? I know they're building the Mt Graham observatory in Arizona, are there others? How many billions in Vatican donations goes to build telescopes? Thanks On 2/22/11 1:01 PM, "J Hunter" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Hi All, > > The next issue of Paranthropology (April 2011) will have the general > theme of "Psi and the Psychedelic Experience". > > If you would like to contribute something, please don't hesitate to > get in touch via [log in to unmask] > > Suitable themes would include: > > Psychedelics and Culture > Psychedelics and Spirituality > Psychedelics and the Paranormal > Psychedelic themes in general > Or anything you think would be of interest to the readers of the journal. > > Articles can be from 500-2,000 words, and book/event/film reviews can > be up to 1,000 words. > > The deadline for submissions is Friday 18th March, as we are hoping to > get some hard copies produced for the "Breaking the Convention" > conference at the University of Kent > (http://breakingconvention.co.uk/) > > All the best for the new year. > > Jack