> ----- Original Message -----
> From: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">kaostar
> To: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 8:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Fw: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Cure a Witch...
>
>
> possibly, he did spend a lot of time in North Africa, but it would be odd for it not to be readily locatable in some primary source
>
> i don't know my WB well enough to know if he cited anything when first mentioning it
>
> Dave E
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: Ted Hand <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 01:08:41 -0800
> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Fw: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Cure a Witch...
>
> > Could it have been something Burroughs read that he misremembered?
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 12:53 AM, kaostar <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >

> > excellent, yes, and given that if H-i-S ever actually said anything like that, for it to translate from Persian or old Arabic into such a convenient soundbyte in 20th centrury English is expecting rather a lot
> >
> > perhaps just another very nice example of 'an appeal to antiquity' used to bolster a modern aphorism
> >
> > Dave E
> >
> > ---------- Original Message -----------
> > From: Noah Gardiner <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 03:51:28 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Fw: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Cure a Witch...
> >
> > > As far as I know from 'straight' historiography of that branch of the Nizari Isma'ilis (aka the hashishin/assassins), by which I mean primarily Farhad Daftary's scholarship on the subject, there's nothing in the Persian or Arabic lit to justify the attribution of the quote to Hassan-i Sabbah (d. 1124).
> > >
> > > I've always wondered where Burroughs got it from --  I don't think it was from Spare. Brion Gysin mentions it quite a bit (e.g. in _The Process_), and Burroughs could have gotten it from him, but that doesn't do much to answer the question. Gysin could conceivably have gotten it from some of his Moroccan friends, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn it actually originated with Burroughs.
> > >
> > > - Noah
> > >
> > > On 2/9/2011 2:49 AM, kaostar wrote:

sorry first time just went to Leigh...
> > >
> > > aye, and the attribution to Hassan is not terribly robust since we don't know a massive amount about him. The late Robert Anton Wilson did a lot to popularise the line, but Bob was a good friend of Burroughs, and was later an admirer of Peter Carroll (leading chaos magical writer), who also knew Burroughs, so it becomes complex
> > >
> > > Dave E
> > >
> > > ---------- Original Message -----------
> > > From: Lvxnox <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 12:08:19 +1100
> > > Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Cure a Witch...
> > >
> > > > "Nothing is true, everything is permitted" is a slogan attributed to Hassan-i-Saba, known as the 'Old man of the Mountains - leader of a historical group of assassins, the Hashashin. William S. Burroughs was fond of quoting this line. I don't believe Spare would have  known of it.
> > > >  
> > > > regards
> > > > Leigh Blackmore

> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">Ian Rees
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:04 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Cure a Witch...
> > > >
> > > > I think the motto you are quoting comes from Austin Osman Spare and reads "Nothing is true, Everything is permitted"- like most of A O Spare's comments a multilevel  and subtle statement which repays much contemplation.  It is certainly a cornerstone of Chaos Magic particularly in the sense of belief being a technique and thus part of the everything that is permitted but having no duration beyond the praxis. I often think it is a shame that so much attention has been paid to Spare's work on personal sigils and symbol systems when some of his wider views on the praxis of magic are so rich in possibility.
> > > >  
> > > > In relation to this motto  you could both respect and disrespect any and all belief systems (including your own) which gives you the happy opportunity to offend everybody and as they used to say in the old music halls "Most Especially Yourself!".
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > > best wishes
> > > >  
> > > > Ian Rees
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Melissa Harrington
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:14 PM
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Cure a Witch...
> > > >
> > > > Am I remembering rightly that the motto for Chaos Magic was "nothing is impossible, everything is permitted."?
> > > >  
> > > > Melissa

> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">D E
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Cure a Witch...
> > > >
> > > > sorry that sent while i was still thinking
> > > >  
> > > > i remember first time i saw (crap hollwood reference alert) the film Ghost, with Whoopi Goldberg, as a fake medium who fakes it for years, but then starts to get 'real spirits' coming through
> > > >  
> > > > the various chaotics i knew then, and me, found it hysterically funny, but apt
> > > >  
> > > > dave e

> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">D E
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:06 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Cure a Witch...
> > > >
> > > > The transcience is what sets it apart in some ways
> > > >  
> > > >  

> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">janet ifimust
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:04 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Cure a Witch...
> > > >
> > > > On 8 February 2011 21:41, Ted Hand <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >

Dave, I'm glad you raised that issue. Are you saying that the way a chaos magician believes
> > > > in a made up god

> > > >
> > > > This is a value statement - or rather it sets itself up as an opposition to this:
> > > >
> > > >  

is the same thing as the way a true believer believes in his God?

> > > >
> > > > And I'm not sure that the opposition exists, of necessity.
> > > >

> > > > --
> > > > Dr. Janet Goodall
> > > > Research Fellow
> > > > Institute of Education
> > > > University of Warwick
> > > > http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/wie/aboutus/
> > > >

> > > ------- End of Original Message -------
> > >
> > > ------- End of Forwarded Message -------
> > >
> > >

> > ------- End of Original Message -------
> >

> ------- End of Original Message -------
>