thanks Jesper
yes, i've always been of a mind that 'satanist' is a label that tells us very little, a little like 'S/He is a European'
philosophically even i *might* be a satanist, in the 'individualist' notion of (some) versions of that philosophy, and i have a lot of time for some of LaVey's work
but have never been on bended knee with virgin and chicken evoking the biblical version, as Hammer Horror films would have us
and i know enough people who profess to be Satanists to be very aware that it is a hugely complex area to define- some of the most charming and generous folk i've ever met have been S-ists, and yet aren't they supposed to be 'evil selfish assholes?' (neopagan 'tabloid' perspective, sometimes)
the usual academic fudge applies, we maybe need to call it satanismS for clarity i suppose- and your Ashgate book project was fabulous for highlighting simply how diverse a subject it is
cheers, and Hail Sat.... : )
Dave
---------- Original Message
-----------
From: Jesper Aagaard Petersen <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 11:52:17 +0100
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] CFP: Satanism conference (Stockholm
University, Sweden, Sept 25-27, 2011)
> Dear
Mogg,
>
> Thank you for your reply. I am sure John is a thoughtful
person, as are all contributors to this list. But the post itself *was*
stereotypical, thinking with caricatures. My reaction to a post is not in
any way a judgement on the person (just as saying "you sound racist" is not the
same as saying "you're racist"). I sincerely hope he will expand on his
views.
>
> "Satanism is very reactionary" - well, what *kind* of Satanism? All
Satanisms? And if so, is this assessment founded on an understanding of the
various ways Satanists' actually use the term Satan, or is it a reaction to
the name Satan and the concept of Satanism, which *for John* is "very
reactionary"?
>
> There is a big difference between the Satanism of Anton LaVey, the
"post"-satanic Setianism of Michael Aquino, the traditional Satanism of Diane
Vera, the sinister path of the ONA, the anti-cosmism of the Temple of the Black
Light, the literary Satanism of the romantic poets and decadents, the
Luciferian Witchcraft of Michael Ford, the anti-Christianity of old-school
Black Metal and so on. Most of these are not "locked into a dualism", but
are reinterpreting Satan to represent something "post-Christian" with roots in
pre-Christian ideas. Anti-Christianity is often just a means, if present at all
(just like the "fuck'em
all").
>
> The collection is my own, so I know none of the contributions agree
with John. The reputed association with Nazism and fascism could be extended to
many groups on the esoteric fringe, and are usually based on misunderstandings,
confirmation bias or extending the activities of some to all.
Dave Evans'
book on British Magic, especially the chapter on "satanization", is a good
examination of what is going on. I have written a chapter for a forthcoming OUP
book on Violence in New Religious Movements futher discussing these issues as
well as the various uses of symbolic violence and transgression, which extend
beyond Satanism and into many Left Hand Path
practices.
>
> Your project sounds intriguing! Please do "un-trench" some part of it
for our
enjoyment!
>
> Best,
>
> Jesper.
>
>
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
mandrake
> Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 11:01
AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
Subject: Re:
[ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] CFP: Satanism conference (Stockholm University, Sweden,
Sept 25-27, 2011)
>
>
> Dear John &
Jesper
>
> John Power is a thoughtful person,
and I'm sure his words are well considered and not stereotypical -
> I
hope
he will expand on his views a little. The collection you mention looks
interesting and I guess that _some_ of the contribs may well agree with
him.
> Satanism could be seen as "reactionary" in several senses, as a
negation of the negative, but also for its reputed association with
Neo-fascism etc .
> I'd style myself a Setian rather than Satanist, but
I
guess both magical-religions are related - as indeed is Thelema.
> My
own
project, through various books and groups, is to try to undermine the
associations sometimes made between the Egyptian god Set(h)
> and the
right -
but I have to admit it's become very entrenched and it may take a
while?
>
> "Love and do what you will"
>
> Mogg
Morgan
>
> Mandrake.uk.net
> Publishers
> PO Box 250,
Oxford, OX1
1AP
> +44 1865 243671
> homepages:
> http://www.mandrake.uk.net
> http://www.ombos.co.uk
>
>
[log in to unmask]">
> Hello
John.
>
> I think that is a pretty stereotypical assessment of
Satanism and a somewhat romanticized view of history as well. You
might benefit from this
book:
>
> http://www.ashgate.com/isbn/9780754652861
>
> If you scroll down, you can even read the introduction for
free.
>
> Best,
>
> Jesper.
>
>
>
From: Society for The Academic Study of
Magic [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of John Power
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01,
2011
3:24 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
Subject:
Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] CFP: Satanism conference (Stockholm University,
Sweden, Sept 25-27, 2011)
>
> Satanism is very
reactionary: why lock yourself into a dualism with the thing you most
dislike, when a simple 'fuck 'em all' will suffice to set off on a
holistic path. The History might however be interesting, when the likes of
Baudelaire and many Symbolists felt the need to react against the far
worse establishment of their day. Nice to give the media simpletons
something to rage about though.
>
>
> -----
>
>
------- End of Original Message
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