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Sorry, I believe I was misunderstood. I used the word profession in the colloquial sense in which it is contrasted with "amateur", as opposed to the sense in which it denotes qualification, the consent of peers and professional codes of conduct. And as you note, I didn't intend to dismiss Anthony Howard's quote as mere semantics. I intended to dismiss it is irrelevant as to whether a blog as a medium and journalism as a form of employment, whether profession or trade. I think that those who work in the industry of constructing arguments call it a "red herring". My suggestion is that a journalist could be published in the form of a blog or in the form of a journal, just as a scientist can be published in a blog or in a (different type of) journal. Since journalism is the way in which the product is initially created, contrasting with the way in which it is presented - the medium - is like comparing jam with toast. Jam can be presented on a variety of media, and toast can carry a variety of products. Those products include marmite, which I would suggest is somewhat analogous to the view of bloggers held by some contributors. David On 16 Jan 2011, at 19:09, Michael Kenward wrote: > Some may see it as semantics to insist on the correct use of labels. I see it as part of a journalistic tradition. Get the facts right. > > The difference between profession and trade may not change your argument. But to dismiss this as “semantic” implies that it is just down to a choice of words. > > The difference is actually profound. > > A profession – as in lawyers, doctors, teachers etc – requires qualifications. To the regret of some people, journalism makes no such demands. My “qualification” is as a scientist, a profession that I pursued for three years before becoming a tradesman for the next 40 years. I have no qualification whatsoever to be a journalist, which some might see as revealing. > > The argument about bloggers and journalists is pointless. I know which I would read with more credence. Bob Ward refers to one reason when he writes that journalists “are expected to be bound by the Editors Code of Practice”. This is one of many differences. As well as Bob’s, I would add that blogging is about the writer whereas journalism is about the reader. > > There are other differences. They are even relevant to the debate about how the media cover climate change; but I am not inclined to get into arguments that really do descend into semantics, which brings us back to why it is wrong to dismiss Anthony Howard’s take as simply an argument about words. > > MK > > > > > > > > > From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Waldock > Sent: 15 January 2011 22:13 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Record warming isn't news > > Regardless of semantics, it is something one does rather than a tool one uses to do what one does, is it not? > > David > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 15 Jan 2011, at 22:08, Michael Kenward <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > This quote, from Robert Harris’s obituary of Anthony Howard, probably sums up most practitioners’ view of the notion that journalism is a profession: > > “The last time I spoke to him, about a month ago, he ticked me off, in his usual Tonyish way, for having referred to journalism on Radio Four as “a profession”: it was, he rightly corrected me, “a trade”…” > > MK > > > _______________________________ > Michael Kenward OBE > Have words will travel > > > > From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Waldock > Sent: 15 January 2011 17:03 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Record warming isn't news > > Whilst I see exactly what you're saying when you contrast the various pieces, I wonder if recognising "the line" might be akin to the demarcation problem in philosophy of science? > > It's very much a case of "I know it when I see it". I don't have a particular drum to bang, but I struggle when people draw a line between blogging and journalism, not least because I see a blog as a medium rather than a profession (and journalism as a profession and not a medium). > > David > > > On 15 Jan 2011, at 16:11, Francis Sedgemore wrote: > > > > David - being an arsey political blogger as well as a 'legitimate' science journalist, I quite agree. > > What annoys me is when journalistic media such as the mighty Groan cross the line engage in the kind of bloggox I described. There are ethical issues involved here, and it also has a deleterious effect on the quality of the journalism. Journalists can, but not necessarily *should* blog, but the line must be respected and standards upheld. > > With the pseudo-blogs operated by the Guardian and other UK news media, what we have is poor quality journalism and screechy blogging. Take, for example the breastfeeding paper published this week by Mary Fewtrell and her UCL colleagues. The BMJ paper and accompanying press release are very interesting, and clear in their conclusions. When it comes to the online reporting of same, the BBC did an excellent job, and whoever wrote the unbylined report (link in my blog post) deserves credit. > > Consider next Sarah Bosely's piece in the Guardian (link in my blog post), which takes a sensationalist approach that focuses on the anger of pro-breastfeeding campaigners, and suggests that the UCL research is tainted by association with baby food manufacturers. Result? Crap journalism leading to hyperbolic comments, with near libellous denunciations of Fewtrell et al. from people who have no intention of reading her BMJ paper. > > I blog, but often wonder why I bother. Perhaps it is because the regular readers of my website are mostly friends and others known to me personally, and comments from strangers are always pre-moderated. It is a troll-unfriendly environment. > > See... > > http://sedgemore.com/2011/01/off-the-tit-or-breastfeeding-bloggox > > Francis > > > On 15/1-11 15:40, David Waldock wrote: > I apologise in advance if I ironically (and unintentionally) stimulate a bun-fight. > > When prehospital care started to become professionalised, it was quickly realised that ambulance crews were going to need to be able to give medicines to patients, and that such drugs would have to be given without prescription and without direct supervision by qualified physicians; this was seen to be a threat to the medical profession's monopoly (enforced by legislation) on prescribing drugs. Ultimately, various pragmatic changes have been made to prescribing laws, and todays ambulance crews carry a range of life-saving and pain-relieving drugs which are routinely given to patients without direct clinical supervision. > > It strikes me that much of the discourse about whether blogging is "legitimate", and whether the conversations generated by their output are of sufficient value seem to be rooted in a similar fear. If, as report after report has said, we accept that science needs to better engage with its public(s), I wonder if we should be criticising the ways in which the publics engage with the science, and the ways in which people are experimenting in relatively new ways of reaching out to them? I'd certainly like to see research exploring what works and what doesn't work, but it often seems to me that such discussions descend into "oughts" and "shoulds" after starting from "is" and "did". > > Just as a paramedic would not take over prescribing on a busy hospital ward, I feel that different communication skills are needed when working in different media and with different audiences. And dynamic engaging blogs are qualitatively different from traditional static, passive newspaper articles, they draw in different audiences, and they engage with different streams of discourse in society. And the fact that different people are getting engaged in different ways can, to me, only be a good thing. > > However, I'm only an MSc student so I'm ready to be corrected ;-) > > David > > -- > Dr Francis Sedgemore > journalist and science writer > www.sedgemore.com > ********************************************************************** Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html You may also change your settings and subscribe/unsubscribe to psci-com from the web site. > Psci-com is part of the National Academic Mailing List Service, known as 'JISCMail'. It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptible Use Policy: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html > > Email commands: 1. 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It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptible Use Policy: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html > > Email commands: 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example, send an email tomailto:[log in to unmask] with the following message: > > set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens] > > 2. To resume email from the list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message: > > set psci-com mail -- [include hyphens] > > 3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message: > > leave psci-com -- [include hyphens] > > Please allow up to 24 hours for these commands to activate. Remember that you will need to send commands using the same email address that you used to register on psci-com. 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