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Dear Bob, I very much enjoyed your reflections on justice. I heard something recently that put justice into its proper context for me, both as a social and institutional issue, (education, government, law, commerce etc. ) and an individual one, (in terms of 'crime and punishment'). I thought you might enjoy it also. Cornel West, author of 'Hope on a Tightrope', said in an interview: "Tenderness is love in private; justice, is love in public." love Sara ________________________________________ From: Practitioner-Researcher [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bob Dick [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:55 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Educational influence and Social Formation Thanks, Aga, for your suggestion about two forms of justice: spiritual and rational. It's a distinction that makes it easier to talk about some of these issues. (I'm not entirely comforable with the actual labels. I don't think of myself as a "spiritual" person. And I think I am sometimes too rational for my own good. But that's only a definitional issue. It doesn't detract from the concepts as concepts.) My interest is in the practicalities of designing and facilitating university units or organisational interventions (as two examples) that are both satisfying and productive. In such applications it seems to me that the concept of "spiritual" justice, to use your terminology, is important. At the same time I think it's likely to be important that the extrinsic, the "rational", doesn't undermine what we are trying to do. The thought occurs to me that the larger the system we are talking about, the more we depend upon the extrinsic. So, yes (to take one example) we may have to lock people up. For me the question is, why do we do so? Different people involved in the Queensland prison system give different responses. One common answer is that "because of their behaviour they have earned the punishment". For those who believe that we all have equal opportunity and we all control our own behaviour, I think that's a reasonable response. Again speaking for myself, I have two difficulties with it. The first is, I don't think people are in control of who they are. I think that the situation people are born into predisposes them to crime, or not. The lesson is, choose your parents wisely, for that does much to determine your future. The second is, in my experience it doesn't work. Prison systems (or justice systems generally) designed on that principle often lead to a high probability of re-offence. That's not very beneficial for the person or for society. Warm regards -- Bob -- +- Bob Dick --------------------------------------------------+ | bd at uqconnect.net http://uqconnect.net/action_research/ | +-------------------------------------------------------------+