Yes RIPA does. The discussions on the legal blogs focused on the viability of presenting any 'forgotten' defence. (Notwithstanding medical evidence of a memory disorder). Those discussions questioned any ability to be able to maintain an effective 'sorry I have forgotten' defence. They should be available via a search using factors contained in the link provided. (Having been focusing on financial and academic worlds over the last year I did not myself save all the links.) One has to accept the juries findings could probably be based upon softer information available within the courtroom. One of the odd things is that I myself deliberately do put in a password intending not to remember it when occasionally finally closing electronic accounts down, and I also forgot some passwords when first obtaining and learning how to use PGP and utilising long passwords. (I found memory management differs between long and short passwords) So it is difficult to believe I am the only person who follows such a practice or has experienced that type of forgetfulness. Any other responses from the list will be interesting as the questions remain valid. I do find it interesting that nobody has yet raised the issue of access to a persons passwords not being acceptable because of the levels of access that provides, or that other access mechanisms are generally available. (To enable legal procedures only requires read access.) All of which leaves open the interpretation that passwords, whilst being a part of security, are being perceived as more of an accountability mechanism than a security one. (I am deliberately disregarding situations where they may be widely shared anyway.) For info, if it is useful to anybody, this case does provide a particularly good case study illustrating many different facets of the privacy paradigm. Ian W -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Cormack [mailto:Andrew. [log in to unmask]] Sent: 05 January 2011 17:43 To: Ian Welton; data- [log in to unmask] Subject: RE: Passwords question Ian RIPA part III definitely allows forgetfulness as a defence (s53(3)). However the blog suggests that the question in this case was actually whether it was plausible that someone would use such an unmemorable password (40-50 *random* characters, the blog suggests) and not write it down. The jury appear to have concluded that it wasn’t plausible, therefore there must be a written copy somewhere that the defendant was refusing to disclose. So the defendant failed to "adduce sufficient evidence to raise an issue" of whether he was still in possession of the (written) password. There are ways of generating memorable passwords of that length that don't need to be written down (the passphrase for my digital signature is of that order), but using a random number generator doesn't seem to be one of them. Andrew -- Andrew Cormack, Chief Regulatory Adviser, JANET(UK) Lumen House, Library Avenue, Harwell, Didcot. OX11 0SG UK Phone: +44 (0) 1235 822302 Blog: http://webmedia.company.ja.net/edlabblogs/regulatory-developments/ JANET, the UK's education and research network JANET(UK) is a trading name of The JNT Association, a company limited by guarantee which is registered in England under No. 2881024 and whose Registered Office is at Lumen House, Library Avenue, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire. OX11 0SG > -----Original Message----- > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Welton > Sent: 05 January 2011 17:11 > To: data- [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Passwords question > > The issue started as a discussion over ethical reporting and the > ethics of organisational press releases, so most of the > coverage/discussions pertained to those areas, with legal blogs also > debating if forgetfulness could be an acceptable defence. > > It was conjectured that > some of the issue for the courts was the strength of encryption. > > A > reasonably full media write up was:- > http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2010/10/police-drage- > password-sex > > A Happy New Year to all. > > Ian W ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All archives of messages are stored permanently and are available to the world wide web community at large at http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html If you wish to leave this list please send the command leave data-protection to [log in to unmask] All user commands can be found at http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm Any queries about sending or receiving messages please send to the list owner [log in to unmask] Full help Desk - please email [log in to unmask] describing your needs To receive these emails in HTML format send the command: SET data-protection HTML to [log in to unmask] (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^