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Robin I'm sure you qualify for honorary membership of the hardy veteran category. Prepare for exhibition :) I can think of a number of reasons for ambiguous feelings about Outposts pamphlets. I saw some of McCaig's early poems a long time ago but I can't remember where. I wasn't very struck by them. On 10 January 2011 07:44, Robin Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Sent:* Monday, January 10, 2011 2:19 AM > *Subject:* Re: Thanks, Robin.--Other Questions > > Oh I loved Edgell Rickword but wasn't he a bit old to be a 'new' poet in > 1949 (he was in WW 1 remember). > > *Point, though he was only eighteen when he joined up in 1916, so the WWI > poems are what you might call precocious, and he lived to a fair age. And > William Soutar and McDiarmid (included) were both born earlier.* > > I always think of him as a 'now-forgotten' poet of the 20s (who kept on > writing. And wasn't forgotten.) > McCaig wasn't the only 'Forties-style' poet to renounce his allegiance - > Norman Nicholson too (or a young poet not Rexroth included, one P.Larkin - > The North Ship was 1949 wasn't it?) > > *North Ship was pretty much Auden rather than Thomas, so not Apocalypse, > even Then. Have you read any of McCaig's early Apocalypse peoms? I > haven't, and they're excluded from the Collected.* > ** > *Talking of exclusions, David (D.M.) Black never mentions his first two > books -- one was called Rocklestrakes and the other the title I don't > recall -- both published by Howard Sergeant as Outpost pamphlets.* > ** > > *Go figure.* > ** > *Hey, Bill Montgomerie's included!! Does that mean I count as a hardy > veteran, since I knew someone in the anthology?* > > *Best,* > ** > *Robin > * > On 10 January 2011 00:14, Robin Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > >> Hey, I'm not *endorsing *the term "Apocalyptic", dave, just that I seem >> to remember that it was the name attached to some poets who were thought to >> be influenced by Dylan Thomas. Only reason that it stuck in my mind was the >> McCaig connection. >> >> I'm still neanderthal enough not to trust stuff which just exists in the >> Cloud, so natch the first thing I did was backtrack the Internet Archive URL >> and download a pdf file from the HTML list there. Didn't quite get to >> printing out a physical copy, but. (Last book I did that for was a rather >> cute work called *The Conceited Pig*, starring a young porcine called >> Wilbur. Whoever wrote it -- between 1842 and 1848 -- was sharp enough to >> pick up on the Chicken Licken/Little story *before* there was even a >> chicken in the narrative, from Robert Chamber's Scots version.) >> >> I notice Edgell Rickword ain't there -- shame that. Seems like his name >> should be in the frame that Rexoth deploys. >> >> Robin >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Sent:* Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:52 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Thanks, Robin.--Other Questions >> >> I think something called World War Two had more claim to Apocalyptic >> paternity, Rob, although I don't think it's the only suspect. 'Under the >> Volcano' is a kind of Apocalyptic masterpiece in prose, though Lowry had no >> real connection with the 'school'. Edith Sitwell was just as representative >> as Dylan Thomas too: 'Still Falls the Rain'. I like your revolutionary >> notion of reading the thing as well as downloading it :) I spent a while >> tonight bringing a smile to some hardy veterans who knew many of the people >> in the anthology by going through the contents list and titles on the phone. >> >> >> On 9 January 2011 22:10, Robin Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>wrote: >> >>> By a curious coincidence (?), Rexroth includes Rayner Heppenstall, whom >>> I hadn't heard of before yesterday, when I discovered he'd written a book >>> called _Reflections on the Newgate Calendar_ (which I promptly ordered, as >>> inter alia I'm trying to construct, not as easy as it might seem, a coherent >>> ordering of the set of texts which together might be called "the Newgate >>> Calendar"), and there he is as a poet! >>> >>> Nice to see Robert Garioch there, among the Scots, and more obviously >>> Norman McCaig. As George Barker and the early (presumably) W.S.Graham are >>> also included, it suggests that Rexroth might have latched onto the one >>> poetic movement that Dylan Thomas did father, the Apocalypse Poets. (McCaig >>> was part of it in the forties, I think, but later disowned the connection >>> when his writing style changed.) >>> >>> But why is the execrable Stephen Spender there, but not MacNeice? >>> >>> Suggests I ought to read the anthology, which I've at least downloaded. >>> >>> Robin >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> *From:* Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]> >>> *To:* [log in to unmask] >>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 09, 2011 3:49 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: Thanks, Robin.--Other Questions >>> >>> Rexroth's introduction is salutory and fascinating; as you say, full of >>> bracing insights. I hadn't read it before. Many thanks for the link. >>> >>> xA >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 5:37 AM, colin herd <[log in to unmask]>wrote: >>> >>>> Another interesting aspect of that anthology is that Scottish poet >>>> Joseph MacLeod is in it twice. Once as Joseph Macleod, and again as Adam >>>> Dirnan, the pseudonym he used when he became famous working for the BBC, to >>>> avoid the stigma of fame affecting the approach he took when writing poetry. >>>> Would be interesting to know if Rexroth was aware they were the same writer, >>>> though perhaps not, because the secret was not made public until 1953. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 2:33 PM, GOODBY JOHN <[log in to unmask]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jess, that Rexroth anthology is The New British Poets (1948) - New >>>>> Directions, so I don't think it came out in the UK. But it gives a great, >>>>> because outsider's viewpoint, on the then state of British poetry. As you >>>>> say, it has plenty of Scots - including Maclean, Soutar and Macleod - Welsh, >>>>> and some Irish in it, and doesn't endorse a London-centric viewpoint. >>>> >>>> >> >> >> -- >> David Joseph Bircumshaw >> Website and A Chide's Alphabet >> http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk >> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html >> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw >> twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave >> blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/ >> >> > > > -- > David Joseph Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw > twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave > blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/ > > -- David Joseph Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/