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Dear Bruce, Is there any obvious reason why PhD students can't produce the same quality of PhD in 2 and half years of full time work? Best wishes, Terry -----Original Message----- From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask] Sent: Monday, 6 December 2010 8:06 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: How hard is it to publish in a high quality, refereed journal Regarding time to completion of an American PhD: In anthropology, you're looking at 8 years, according to the American Anthropological Association (see below). When I was at the University of Chicago in the late 1990s (when there was hardly a PhD in design option in the US), the average was 8.7 years (data from the past 100 graduates). 80-some% of the graduates finished within 11 years. Only 3 of the most recent 100 graduates had finished in 5 years or less. Scholarly and field language proficiency acquisition; lengthy field work of at least 1 year, often 2; and relatively sparse governmental funding for field work and dissertation writing were cited at that time by the AAA as reasons for this (undoubtedly still true). At U of C, admission was to the doctoral program and students had to finish a masters thesis prior to admission to candidacy (after passing qualifying exams). So, rather than an MA being a "parting gift," (or "courtesy MS degree" as Don noted in science/engineering) for not passing exams, it was something that you definitely earned prior to taking your qualifying exams. There was a correlation at the U of C between lengthy time-to-PhD and getting tenured faculty positions at top-tier institutions. It was not unusual for students to be published in peer-reviewed journals before graduation, and to be competitive for positions at top-tier institutions, this was almost necessary. (The University is consistently ranked #1 or co-#1 by the National Research Council, which may make doctoral candidate publishing more common than by students at other institutions.) But when compared to what might be a more typical 5-year PhD in art and design, one would hope, if not expect, that with these extra years students were publishing. "The average postbaccalaureate time needed to obtain the master's degree is two years and the PhD, about eight years. The lengthy time required for an anthropology master's and doctorate is due in part to the custom of completing a field project for the thesis or dissertation and mastering several bodies of knowledge about the area, including comprehensive language training, before departing for the field site. The field research is generally several months for the master's student and 12 to 30 months for the doctoral student." Source: http://www.aaanet.org/profdev/careers/careers.cfm BRUCE M. THARP, PHD Associate Professor Director of Graduate Studies Department of Industrial Design University of Illinois at Chicago [log in to unmask]