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Sharon and others. Well said. With the background that most of us have, it is sometimes easy to lose sight of why we are where we are. As nurses on the wards or in other areas of NHS care, we are public servants, there at the behest of the public purse. As OH Advisers/nurses - call us what you will - we are there at the behest of our employers who expect us to achieve certain objectives that helps them meet certain objectives. This includes the NHS trusts that many on the list work for although I get the impression that the employing trusts sometimes have a much bigger problem understanding this than the OH professionals who work for them. The important thing is for the OH Service and the employer/purchaser to have a common understanding of what the objectives are. I can imagine some companies that may have a large proportion of part time and transient female workers where a good knowledge of maternity issues may be very useful. Other organisations with different risks and a very different demographic will have different demands. There are some businesses who have a much better understanding of OH than others and part of what we do is helping our employers or purchasers understand what we do (and what we don't do) and the legal and ethical boundaries that govern us so that limited resources can be targeted to where they are of most benefit. Ultimately in the world of OH though, that benefit is for the business we work for and, unless you have a very benevolent employer, not the wider public health. Enjoy the snow. It's all gone here and never really arrived to start with. Lindsey From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of sharon naylor Sent: 27 November 2010 12:58 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] alternate practice for OH student Slightly at a tangent here and this is me thinking aloud. I have always had a nagging feeling that sometimes we do ourselves a disservice as a profession in an effort to be "nice" and all things to all men. I quite like doing "nice ", making things better, allaying anxieties etc. The majority of us on list started out as "proper" ( i say that with tounge firmly in cheek) nurses in uniform carrying bedpans, changing IV`s etc. People who "do" things for people, are their patients advocate - this can be a hard habit to break. However, this notion may not serve us that well in OH (dependant on the culture of the employer) I know there have been many occasions early in my career, when I spent considerable time trying to assist with something that may not be strictly within the OH remit, I am still not in the habit of turning someone away when they are in crisis. However I have also been chastised for this as quite simply employers have bigger fish to fry. The conversation usually started with "......why am I paying you to do things that really should sit with the GP/counsellor/midwife/victim support?" I argued that this will in turn have a +ve effect, thus reducing absenteeism, improving morale etc but in fact these effects are difficult to demonstrate or measure. In the big bad old world that we are in I think we maybe now need to work "smarter" and pretty quickly to enable measurable results for employers. While not wishing to denigrate anything that another professional would do, I know that with my employer they are more interested in what I am doing strategically to deliver the results they need/want. They do acknowledge that the one to one stuff not necessarily within my remit serves the individual well - but they would quite simply prefer that I was doing something else. i`m lucky that I have a fairly free rein to manage my workload as I see fit, so actually I fit it all in. But as I am starting to apply much more lateral thinking/skills to my role to enable their goals, I will have less time for nice and non OH , unless I considerably increase my hours at work. Sad but true. However the less sad bit is that we are in a pretty good position of influence, and we can (with a bit of confidence) break out, shine, become more valued, and be a force to be reckoned within a field that will undoubtedly gain a much higher profile as the squeeze on employers increases .................. Going out with my sledge now...... _____ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 10:15:55 +0000 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] alternate practice for OH student To: [log in to unmask] Hi I think we need to consider this within the context of how did this contribute to the organisation's goals and objectives. Working within OH enables us to improve the public health by working with organisations to assist in the creation of a culture which promotes health and wellbeing and positively affects business performance. I think that this one lady has been helped but a greater effect could have been made by looking at the workplace policies and working with managers on breast feeding in the workplace and why it is of benefit to the organisation to make provision and allow mothers to see to their breast feeding requirements. Anna Harrington Health and Wellbeing at Work Specialist SCPHN (Occ Health) www.harringtonenterprises.co.uk <http://www.harringtonenterprises.co.uk/> 07816212836. ----- Original Message ----- From: [log in to unmask] To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] alternate practice for OH student I must admit this is my view too Sharon. This is a grey area and I am unsure if it is integral to workplace health management. However, I guess it depends on one's approach to the provision of occupational health within a public health strategy. As a student I would have gained more spending time in a dermatology or respiratory medicine clinic or a rehab unit to get a firmer understanding of issues which are more directly "occupational health" related. Some HEIs have a much greater emphasis on shared learning with school nurses and health visitors than we have at LSBU. In response to stakeholder and student feedback on course content and delivery we are returning to offering totally pathway specific units underpinned by shared concepts across pathways. For example, there is an NMC requirement to explore health surveillance. On our OH pathway we cover statutory and non-statutory health surveillance such as required under COSHH, Control of Noise at Work Regs etc. Students studying on the HV and SN pathway consider surveillance of health amongst their client groups. It would be interesting to read the views of other practitioners. Anne Harriss Course Director LONDON SOUTH BANK UNIVERSITY On 26/11/2010 15:58, "Naylor, Sharon [HMPS]" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: mmmmmm - Is this an example of OH practise per se, or an example of being an additional resource for health related matters that happens to be a) approachable b) accessible c) within the workplace? If it is the latter does that then too come under the banner of OH, and if it does then where does our remit stop? We have many discussions on this forum about the remit of OH, what constitutes a management/primary care/personal responsibility issue. One of those grey areas methinks............. _____ From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Georgina Mills Sent: 26 November 2010 15:17 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] alternate practice for OH student Just an example of the of the way I was able to alter my practice - I was apporached by a new mother on her second day back to work and who was struggling with keeping her milk production under controll whilst at work 8hours per day (She had some leakage the day before and had to go home to get changed). Due to the knowledge I gained on the placement day, I was able to refer her to a breast feeding support group - who very convienienty had a meeting that afternoon 3/4 of a mile from her work place. She attended on her lunch break and was able to meet other mothers who do the same thing (express at work), she was able to gain support from them, the breast feeding nurse and a few weeks into her new routine was able to support other mothers in the choice to continue breast feeding. In adition - I wasnt able to provide the breast feeding nurse with any additional information on breast feeding at work policies, she had just about written the book on it. I would say I gained much more from this than she did. The mother has continued to express and breastfeed her daughter who is now 11months old. Way past her original expectation of 7 months. Mother Benefits, Child Benefits, Workplace Benefits. Win Win so far! Kindest regards, Georgina On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 3:03 PM, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Hello Georgina I am glad to read that it was a positive experience for you and a day well spent. I am sure many OH students are reading they may be interested in knowing what new knowledge you gained and how it influenced or changed your practice. There is one definite benefit - but I see the benefit more to the breast feeding nurse rather than to the OHN. The breast feeding support nurse gets the opportunity to learn about OH. I know how difficult it is to get time out of work for visits. For example I regularly organise field trips (eg a practical risk assessment in the Palm House at Kew Gardens) and visits to employment tribunals (ET) and many of our students say that their employer will not allow them the time from work unless they take A/L. An ET has definite relevance to our practice and if they can't get time to attend an ET then I very much doubt they would be able to negotiate time with a breast feeding adviser. Anne On 26/11/2010 12:49, "Georgina Mills" <[log in to unmask] <http:[log in to unmask] <http://gmail.com/> > > wrote: The breast feeding suppport nurse was suggested by the Uni, like you I was confused as to what I could learn from the experience. When I attended I explained why I was there (or why I though I was there at the time!!!) and the mothers were all very happy to discuss their experiences. I was really surprised at the amount of mothers who were ready to give up breast feeding on return to work - many of them knew about their employers policy on supporting breast feeding at work (ie time away to use a breast pump etc) but just felt too stressed at the thought of asking/arranging the time along with their normal duties. The breast feeding nurse gave a wealth of information to the mothers that day about the possibilites of continuing breast feeding at work. You are right - they were well established breast feeders during maternity leave, but none of them were ready for the implications of carrying on with breast feeding whilst working - I was a breast feeding mother and gave up on return to work - if I had extra support I dare say I would have continued. The experience has assisted me on two occasions since and although I totally understand your point - I felt it was a really valid placement for OH - I used my holiday entitlement and weekends to arrange my practice placement so I fully understand the importance of justifying placements - but I must say that this was a day's holiday well spent! Georgina On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 9:38 PM, [log in to unmask] <http:[log in to unmask] <http://waitrose.com/> > <[log in to unmask] <http:[log in to unmask] <http://waitrose.com/> > > wrote: Hello Georgina I would totally support students spending time with Travel clinics, family planning (support of young workers), audiology (excellent idea) etc. However, out of interest what did you gain from the breast feeding support nurse? My experience of women returning to work after mat leave is that either breast feeding is well established so they have no need of breast feeding support - OR they have stopped breast feeding. Unfortunately, time is money - in my days as the manager of an OHS you would have had to justify to me a visit to a breast feeding adviser - if you couldn't I would not have supported such a visit in work time. Anne Anne Harriss Course Director London South Bank University On 25/11/10 19:30, "Georgina Mills" <[log in to unmask] <http:[log in to unmask] <http://gmail.com/> > > wrote: I'm based in Scotland, but a few of the places I attended for my placements were; Travel Vaccination Clinic, Family Planning, Audiology Department NHS, Occupational Hygiene, Occupational Physio, Local Breast Feeding support nurse - I called round and they were all very accommodating. I hope that helps! G On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Chris Allan <[log in to unmask] <http:[log in to unmask] <http://googlemail.com/> > > wrote: Dear List, I'm looking for some alternate practice experiences for an OH student I'm mentoring, she is based in London getting her practice experience in a West London University. Any offers, advice or suggestions would be much appreciated. With best wishes to you all, Chris Allan ******************************** Please remove this footer before replying. 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