 |
 |
we are! Charles ________________________________________ From: An informal open list set up by UKSG - Connecting the Information Community [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Cox [[log in to unmask]] Sent: 19 November 2010 15:19 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [lis-e-resources] Journal resources/prices: individual versus institutional I would just like to clarify what I said about the possibility of an institution rendering itself liable to a claim for inducing breach of contract - my third point. This was made as a direct answer to the specific question posed by Frank Trew in his original posting: 'Has anyone opted to go down a route of individual subscription (as opposed to institutional one), with a presumption that the "individual" would then donate their "personal" copies to the library? The premise being that the individual subscription is very often much cheaper that the institutional one.' That looks very much like a library arranging with an individual to take out an individual subscription with a view to transferring it immediately to the library. On those narrow grounds I will adhere to the point that I made. Of course, if the library is simply the recipient of an unsolicited gift, there is no question of liability. I think that Charles and I are on the same page. John John Cox Managing Director John Cox Associates Ltd Rookwood, Bradden Towcester, Northamptonshire NN12 8ED United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 1327 861184 Fax: +44 (0) 20 8043 1053 E-mail: [log in to unmask] Web: www.johncoxassociates.com -----Original Message----- From: An informal open list set up by UKSG - Connecting the Information Community [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of C Oppenheim Sent: 19 November 2010 13:36 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [lis-e-resources] Journal resources/prices: individual versus institutional If the library accepts these donations, then I agree there is no breach of copyright and I am dubious about the notion that it was inducing a breach of contract. BUT the publisher is perfectly entitled to (1) refuse to have the individual as a subscriber ever again - so the supply to the library dries up fast - AND could refuse to supply other titles to the library which that library currently has as institutional subscriptions from the same publisher. So whilst I don't think the library accepting copies is illegal in the way John describes, it is such a foolish course of action that I totally agree with his conclusion: don't go there and indeed I would put it more strongly: don't even think of going there Charles ________________________________________ From: An informal open list set up by UKSG - Connecting the Information Community [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eileen Jamieson [[log in to unmask]] Sent: 19 November 2010 13:11 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [lis-e-resources] Journal resources/prices: individual versus institutional I agree with the first and second options, but the third one is questionable. I don't immediately see what grounds the publisher would have for legal action against the library in the case of unsolicited donations. There may be one, but the ones mentioned don't seem to be applicable. There is no "breach of copyright" in this situation as the originals have been donated and no copying is involved. "Inducing breach of contract" would only apply if a library had asked the donor to purchase the journal on its behalf, but not if it didn't and the library wouldn't be in breach of contract itself since it didn't have one. However, asking an individual to purchase a journal for a library is another matter entirely. I wouldn't advise it. Regards ___________________________________________ Eileen Jamieson Serials and Information Librarian Email: [log in to unmask] Tel: +44 (0)20 7432 0999 Fax: +44 (0)20 7439 3470 Web: www.geolsoc.org.uk/gsl/info The Geological Society Burlington House Piccadilly London W1J 0BG -----Original Message----- From: An informal open list set up by UKSG - Connecting the Information Community [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Raewyn Adams Sent: 18 November 2010 19:30 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [lis-e-resources] Journal resources/prices: individual versus institutional I fully agree that the first and second options are likely and reasonable courses of actions. I wonder about the third. Libraries receive a lot of donations and I would think accept these donations in good faith. So if someone offers to donate a print copy of a journal, would you expect the library to give them the third degree about whether they do own those print copies and have the right to give them to whom they wish, or whether there's a clause in their society membership that specifies that the print copies may not be used by or passed to anyone else? If there is such a clause and the member is breaching it by donating a personal print copy, surely that is a matter between the subscriber and the publisher and nothing to do with the library concerned? Regards Raewyn Raewyn Adams Librarian BOP Clinical School Tauranga Hospital Library Bay of Plenty District Health Board Private Bag 12024, Tauranga 3143, NZ -----Original Message----- From: An informal open list set up by UKSG - Connecting the Information Community [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Thursday, 18 November 2010 09:59 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [lis-e-resources] Journal resources/prices: individual versus institutional When publishers set individual and institutional subscription prices, there are conditions attached. While the institutional subscription assumes unlimited access by all those entitled to use the institution's library, the individual subscription rate comes with the condition that the journal is for the personal use of the subscriber only. If the individual subscriber passes his/her copies to the library for access by all, he/she is in breach of those conditions - i.e. in breach of contract. What would a publisher do in those circumstances? My experience as a publisher and as a subscription agent over 40 years indicates that publishers could take the following steps: Firstly, it would write to the individual subscriber pointing out the breach of conditions and ask him/her to cease and desist. Secondly, it could suspend the dispatch of the remaining issues due under that subscription until the matter had been resolved. Thirdly, the publisher might write to the library pointing out that using such copies as part of the library collection is not allowed under the terms of the individual subscription and that the library's conduct could be subject to legal action (inducing breach of contract, breach of copyright etc). Most librarians I know want to be good copyright citizens. Most institutions want to avoid unnecessary legal liabilities. Most publishers would be horrified at the prospect of taking action against their customers, but have to protect their businesses. I am astonished that this issue has been raised in these terms. Don't go there. John Cox Managing Director John Cox Associates Ltd Rookwood, Bradden Towcester, Northamptonshire NN12 8ED United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 1327 861184 Fax: +44 (0) 20 8043 1053 E-mail: [log in to unmask] Web: www.johncoxassociates.com -----Original Message----- From: An informal open list set up by UKSG - Connecting the Information Community [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Frank Trew Sent: 17 November 2010 17:06 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [lis-e-resources] Journal resources/prices: individual versus institutional There has been some activity recently concerning the rising cost of journals, with publishers hiking their prices, and institutions bemoaning the straitened financial circumstances under which we are having to operate. My question to the group is this: Has anyone opted to go down a route of individual subscription (as opposed to institutional one), with a presumption that the "individual" would then donate their "personal" copies to the library? The premise being that the individual subscription is very often much cheaper that the institutional one. I realise this is a potential minefield (and I may not be wearing sufficient armour to deal with the flak!) But surely, such an approach would not be illegal, would it, even though there might be moral qualms about it? Of course, any online access that came with the subscription would really be just for the individual, and not be available institution wide. But if we could live with that, are there any reason why we shouldn't do this? Just thought I'd ask... Frank Trew College Librarian Rose Bruford College of Theatre and Performance Frank Trew Librarian Forthcoming Events at Rose Bruford College: Autumn Season at Rose Bruford College, with “Tales from the Vienna Woods” by Ödön Von Horváth (Thursday 28th October to Saturday 30th October), “The Playboy of the Western World” by J.M Synge (Thursday 11th November to Saturday 13th November), and “Children of the Sun” by Maxim Gorky (Thursday 25th November to Saturday 27th November). Tickets are available from box office at mailto:[log in to unmask] or call box office on 020 8308 2616. New Course from Rose Bruford College: Postgraduate Certificate in Learning and Teaching in HE (Theatre & Performing Arts) please contact Kathy Dacre for further information at mailto:[log in to unmask] Lamorbey Park Campus, Burnt Oak Lane, Sidcup, Kent. DA15 9DF. UK. t +44(0)20 8308 2600 f +44(0)20 8308 0542 ddi +44(0)20 8308 2685 P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail lis-e-resources is a UKSG list - http://www.uksg.org/serials UKSG groups also available on Facebook and LinkedIn lis-e-resources is a UKSG list - http://www.uksg.org/serials UKSG groups also available on Facebook and LinkedIn Notice of Legal Status and Confidential Information: This electronic mail message and any accompanying attachments may contain information that is privileged and CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient you are advised that any use, review, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of the information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this document in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy the message. ____________________________________________________________________________ __ This email has been scrubbed for your protection by SMX. For more information visit http://smxemail.com ____________________________________________________________________________ __ lis-e-resources is a UKSG list - http://www.uksg.org/serials UKSG groups also available on Facebook and LinkedIn ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star on behalf of The Geological Society. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on this please contact Kevin Perry at [log in to unmask] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email is confidential and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received it in error, please do not reproduce or disseminate the contents of this message; please contact us by return email, or by telephone on +44 (0)20 7434 9944, and delete this message and any copies of it from your computer systems. The Society does not accept liability for individuals' opinions, advice or views expressed in this email. The Geological Society of London is a registered charity, number 210161, registered address Burlington House, Piccadilly, London, W1J 0BG. This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ lis-e-resources is a UKSG list - http://www.uksg.org/serials UKSG groups also available on Facebook and LinkedIn lis-e-resources is a UKSG list - http://www.uksg.org/serials UKSG groups also available on Facebook and LinkedIn lis-e-resources is a UKSG list - http://www.uksg.org/serials UKSG groups also available on Facebook and LinkedIn lis-e-resources is a UKSG list - http://www.uksg.org/serials UKSG groups also available on Facebook and LinkedIn