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It is interesting that the emotion that brought me round from that was one of fraternal concern, of empathy for my brother, empathy in the most literal of senses not the false empathy of books and philosophy, as we were feeling the same emotions, full of the same recollections and our psyches influenced by that. He had phoned me up unaware of my state of despair, and more or less commanded me to come round to him that moment, which I did, we then set out in the middle of the night towards the lake together, I putting him officially on duty of suicide watch because I told him of my intent, and saying he was not to allow me to do anything dangerous to either of us, whilst I was in a sense watching him too, he was drunk and perhaps in need of more care than I. He was not awake when we reached the lake, but my necessity to take care of him had changed the focus of my attention in a significant way, in that whatever you do when you end your life, that is going to affect others who are still around. I do not believe the response of society, either medication to make you feel that there is nothing wrong when there is something deeply wrong with the way you are interfacing with the world and society is a correct response, neither is to deprive someone of liberty. I have found myself feeling as low as I did on that night since, indeed at this time the memory of it and the dark nights bring it on. I have since found myself admitted overnight to a mental ward in a state of considerable agitation, unable to speak (foresight however having brought a laptop with me for that purpose of communication) There was not any way I was going to admit of suicidal intent however, because rational self preservation (if that does not sound paradoxical when one has suicidal ideations) informs one that they will not discharge you until they are convinced you are not going to self harm. My way of proving that was in itself bizarre (as for some reason everything in my life often is extreme and bizarre) but that is another story for my anecdotage. There is a postscript to this, one that possibly is irrational in it's contemplation and that is harder to explain rationally, I have been engaged in a video project I shall probably never finish, somewhat autobiographical in nature, chronicling many of my experiences in the years since I became capable of using this medium. This is not the original video dealing with the topic of suicide, which I cannot show, but a more personal one. I did revisit the lake on Christmas day 2001, took off my clothes and immersed myself in it's waters up to my shoulders at one point. I was alone but for the camera, and I could not swim at that time. I just had to go through with that to exorcise that demon as it were. Be warned there is the odd mild expletive in the narrative. http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=inregionecaecorum#p/u/14/ObmKMt74dgw Yes that lake does have a siren call to it, I was in the lake again last Christmas too, though only paddling up to my knees as it was cold, there's a story behind that too, as only shortly before I had been in hospital with a suspected (but turned out not to be) heart attack so you could call my journey that year a celebration of life, not death. Larry > -----Original Message----- > From: The Disability-Research Discussion List [mailto:DISABILITY- > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Webb > Sent: 16 November 2010 07:45 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Larry's messages re suicide book > > Hi Helen and everyone, > > David Webb here (in Australia), author of "Thinking About Suicide", which Larry has > suggested might be of that interesting genre that he calls "psycho-academical- > sociological-ethical-tragical-pastoral-historical-comical". I'm part flattered, part > offended, but mostly amused. > > Helen kindly cc'd me on her reply to the list and I'm embarrassed that I've not been > aware of and a member of the group - I am now and will stick around, it looks great. As > a newcomer, I've nothing to say on the "volley" of responses to Larry about group > etiquette. Other than that I was not at all offended by his comments, nor his occasional > colourful language, which I'm reasonably fluent with as an Aussie. > > But a few people have expressed some interest in a discussion about the topic of my > book, the tricky topic of suicide. I'd be very happy to be part of this discussion if > others wanted it. To perhaps get the ball rolling, I'll say that I totally agree with Larry > that suicide has "f--- all" to do with so-called "mental illness". > > Good to meet you all. > > A warm and sunny cheers from Down Under (sorry, couldn't resist) - David > > ________________End of message________________ > > This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for Disability Studies > at the University of Leeds (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). > Enquiries about list administration should be sent to disability-research- > [log in to unmask] > > Archives and tools are located at: > www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html > You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web page. > -----Original Message----- > From: The Disability-Research Discussion List [mailto:DISABILITY- > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Webb > Sent: 16 November 2010 07:45 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Larry's messages re suicide book > > Hi Helen and everyone, > > David Webb here (in Australia), author of "Thinking About Suicide", which Larry has > suggested might be of that interesting genre that he calls "psycho-academical- > sociological-ethical-tragical-pastoral-historical-comical". I'm part flattered, part > offended, but mostly amused. > > Helen kindly cc'd me on her reply to the list and I'm embarrassed that I've not been > aware of and a member of the group - I am now and will stick around, it looks great. As > a newcomer, I've nothing to say on the "volley" of responses to Larry about group > etiquette. Other than that I was not at all offended by his comments, nor his occasional > colourful language, which I'm reasonably fluent with as an Aussie. > > But a few people have expressed some interest in a discussion about the topic of my > book, the tricky topic of suicide. I'd be very happy to be part of this discussion if > others wanted it. To perhaps get the ball rolling, I'll say that I totally agree with Larry > that suicide has "f--- all" to do with so-called "mental illness". > > Good to meet you all. > > A warm and sunny cheers from Down Under (sorry, couldn't resist) - David > > ________________End of message________________ > > This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for Disability Studies > at the University of Leeds (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). > Enquiries about list administration should be sent to disability-research- > [log in to unmask] > > Archives and tools are located at: > www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html > You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web page. ________________End of message________________ This Disability-Research Discussion list is managed by the Centre for Disability Studies at the University of Leeds (www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies). Enquiries about list administration should be sent to [log in to unmask] Archives and tools are located at: www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html You can VIEW, POST, JOIN and LEAVE the list by logging in to this web page.