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I'm with Helen on this. It's making serious points with humour. The Daily Mail campaign to classify everything as a cause or cure (or both) of cancer (http://kill-or-cure.heroku.com/about ) is perhaps an extreme version of the kind of science journalism being parodied. Another example of a critique - this time by Pharyngula on BBC's "Male infertility gene discovered" http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/10/science_journalists_no_more_si.php or http://tinyurl.com/3xyatw6 best wishes to all Tristram -----Original Message----- From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hilary Sutcliffe Sent: 03 October 2010 19:41 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] This is a comment about The Lay Scientist No, don't think I've missed the point at all Michael. 'Close to the bone' absolutely doesn't imply that this is an accurate representation. It suggests there are elements of the representation which resonate as being true, which then makes us uncomfortable when faced with such knowledge. Anyone who has put together press releases or articles about anything from physics to dog food (and I've done both) knows how the presentation of information in such stories can only be so creative without losing sight of the 'story' you want to tell and the flow of the information you need to get in there. It is easy it is to fall into the formula trap, I have many times myself despite trying not to, more so when in a rush. Similarly the reason that things are often amusing, and I think also in this case, is that they again resonate with our experience, the fact that it is a parody doesn't make it any less funny, nor any less uncomfortable, but it really doesn't mean it is an 'accurate representation'. Can't we take a mild piss-take of the stories we read/write every day in the press without us having a sense of humour failure? If it wasn't 'close to the bone', it wouldn't be funny, it would be odd and bizzare, and probably wouldn't have made the column. In fact the more I think about it, it is brilliant, I will certainly refer to it next time I create such an article. First to check I've got all the stuff I should have in there and second to try to ensure I haven't fallen into the formula trap he has described. Frankly, I think a good laugh and a serious point in one science column is work of genius! Best regards Hilary Hilary Sutcliffe Director MATTER 7 Adam Street London WC2H 6AA Tel: +44 (0)207 520 9086 Mob: 07799 625064 Twitter: http://twitter.com/hilarysutcliffe Email: [log in to unmask] Blog: http://www.matterforall.org/blog/ Website www.matterforall.org Take a look at Andrew Maynard's review of www.nanoandme.org on http://2020science.org/2009/09/28/so-you ’re-curious-about-nanotechnology / On 3 Oct 2010, at 18:44, Michael Kenward wrote: I think you have missed the point. "Close to the bone" implies that the piece is an accurate representation of reality. Several people have said here that they do not recognise it as such. Then again, no one has said that it isn't amusing. MK -----Original Message----- From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hilary Sutcliffe Sent: 03 October 2010 17:48 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] This is a comment about The Lay Scientist The reason it is so funny is that it is perhaps a little close to the bone. That's the point. You don't think we ought to chill and get a sense of humour!? Hilary Hilary Sutcliffe Director MATTER 7 Adam Street London WC2H 6AA Tel: +44 (0)207 520 9086 Mob: 07799 625064 Twitter: http://twitter.com/hilarysutcliffe Email: [log in to unmask] Blog: http://www.matterforall.org/blog/ Website www.matterforall.org Everything you wanted to know about nano, but were afraid to ask - www.nanoandme.org Take a look at Andrew Maynard's review of Nano&me on http://2020science.org/2009/09/28/so-you ’re-curious-about-nanotechnology…/ On 1 Oct 2010, at 21:26, Bill O'Neill wrote: isn't the original piece written by someone who has never had to put together a science story, and with about as much entertainment value as a tub of banana custard... it's easy to whinge, tough to deliver ============================================ Original Message You were right to bring this to our attention. It did get a surprising amount of coverage, probably because of the style. The thing about the small coterie is that by linking and retweeting among itself it can build up the head of steam that you observed. Then again, far be it for me to point out that the 000s of hits that send these folks into ecstasies shrink into insignificance alongside the 000,000s who read New Scientist every week, let alone the newspaper audience. The thing about links to journals has been rattling around for quite some time. Links should appear when appropriate, although often they will lead you to an expensive paywall. (Has anyone ever coughed up £30 to read one paper in a journal?) But constantly railing against the BBC for not scattering them all over the place is a bit tedious after the nth repetition of the whinge. The BBC may have its reasons. I haven't asked. Then again, I am not running a campaign. MK From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carmel Turner Sent: 01 October 2010 18:22 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] This is a comment about The Lay Scientist My point was only that this piece seemed to get a LOTof interest (far more than the "small coterie of blogggers" described) from The Outside World rather than the science comms community (I hate that word, but you know what I mean)...and I didn't think it should go unnoticed and un- commented upon. Seems a lot of people out there would really (rilly rilly) like to have links to original papers and that's a good thing and something about which we should be aware. That's all - have a good weekend, y'all, Carmel Carmel Turner Media Manager Royal Society of Medicine 1 Wimpole Street London W1G 0AE 020 7290 2904 07949 516471 _____ From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Oli Usher Sent: 01 October 2010 16:36 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] This is a comment about The Lay Scientist For a critique of the equivalent "template" for writing scientific papers, you could do worse than look at this: http://web.me.com/elandbas/relevant/schrijven_files/Weber.pdf On 01/10/2010 17:15, Regnier Michael wrote: It was entertaining enough that I added a suitably “This is a comment ” comment, but – and here I agree with Mico – it really doesn’t do anything constructive. Presumably Martin wants to influence (online) (BBC) science journalism and, in some way, improve it. But he ends up attacking what seem to me to be some perfectly respectable features of online science stories. Why shouldn’t a journalist quote a scientist’s claim about their research (“scare quotes” is a big, fat cliché)? The journalist hasn’t done the science and the model of news in the rest of the media is as dependent on reporting what people are arguing (and counter-arguing). Indeed, if we’re in favour of having journalists at all, it is facile to attack them for not taking “responsibility for establishing the likely truth or accuracy of the findings”, given that’s surely what the scientific community says peer review takes care of for us. (I mean, does Martin want the journalist to reproduce the experiment to test the results? Or investigate the peer review process prior to a paper being published? If not, what other option is there other than to talk to more scientists and include quotes from them in the piece to present some context?) Sub-headings and short paragraphs are, I presume, the result of valid research showing that’s how most online readers get most out of an article. Martin clearly disapproves, but as a person with a scientific background and a vested interest in science and its reporting, he is not the target majority of (online) (BBC) readers. I won’t go on, except to say that to have a pop at editors who are concerned for the “human interest” angle is pretty pathetic. Scientists (or the abstract science itself) probably are not interesting enough for most readers. This comes down to basic news value, and not providing some sort of link between the (non-scientific) reader and the story would limit the number of people interested in the story to scientists. Scientists have their own specialist media if they want to ignore “human interest” and retreat into ivory towers watching their funding be slashed. There is an element of ‘recipe’ or, shall we say, ‘template’ to science writing. Just as there is to writing a scientific paper. It doesn’t (necessarily) mean the content is risible. Michael Regnier MRC Science Writer _____ From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Kenward Sent: 30 September 2010 18:25 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] This is a comment about The Lay Scientist Such was the wave of adulation following the piece on The Guardian site that I thought I was alone in finding it more entertaining than informed, or informative. So I kept quiet. Mico’s comment smoked me out. I do not recognise the piece on the Guardian site as reflecting what I read in the media. Sure, articles may exhibit one of these crimes against science, but I would like to see evidence that that approach is truly representative of science journalism as practised in our media. All it would take would be a set of links, or quotes from examples. Jenny Gristock has already pointed to a somewhat wittier, and sadly more accurate, piece written some time ago by Charles Petit, who has spent many years on the right side of a typewriter. (Yes, some of us are old enough to have used these.) http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200111/zero-gravity.cfm There is a small coterie of bloggers out there – few of whom have spent even a day at work on a news desk – who slap each other on the back as they poke fun at science reporting. It may stem from the fact that bloggers smart at being attacked for not being “real journalists”, whatever that means. The bloggers delight in sniping away without having anything useful to contribute. I should add, though, that Martin Robbins is more thoughtful and investigative than some of these people, who seem to think that the Twitter is the bee’s knees rather than the stream of drivel that most of it is. If someone were to look closely at these Twitterers, and their blogs, they might find writing that is far more formulaic and narrow, and often grammatically sloppy beyond belief, than anything in the mainstream media. _______________________________ Michael Kenward OBE Have words will travel From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mico Tatalovic Sent: 30 September 2010 16:41 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] This is a comment about The Lay Scientist This is vaguely entertaining but what is it actually saying, apart from the fact that Martin holds a grudge against the BBC? It states the obvious really: this is broadly the way online science news articles are published, and it works well given all the constraints. In fact, some of us would love to get articles written to this formula – it would make our job much easier (exempting of course sillines such as using Wikipedia as a source - but why not Google to find relevant reports and supporting information?). I seem to remember that Martin gave a talk at the UK science journalism conference along similar lines, saying that any press released paper will result in dozens of news articles which are almost exactly the same. In his opinion, this is a waste of resources. (Again he, for some reason, singled out the BBC, which I believe is doing a great job providing news not just to the UK but to the world. It was the top science news source for scientists I had worked with while studying in Cambridge). Martin neglects the fact that many of these articles are written from a particular perspective for a specific audience and so in fact differ quite a bit. Also, not everyone will read any odd science news article – people want to know how any given item is relevant to them, and this is where different outlets become important. What would be nice is if Martin followed this up with a website science news article that would be exemplary - how to do it, then. _____ Mico Tatalovic, BA (Oxon), MPhil (Cantab), MSc & DIC (Imperial) _____ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:16:08 +0100 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: [PSCI-COM] This is a comment about The Lay Scientist To: [log in to unmask] Very surprised there's been no discussion of this http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-lay-scientist/2010/sep/24/1?showallcom ments=true#comment-fold Have heard lots of discussion (and enthusiastic support for) this witty piece from 'non-science communications' peeps I know. And there was another piece in the Guardian yesterday discussing the massive (and I use that word in a purely non-scientific way) response. Whether people agree with it or not, I just thought it odd that it hadn't been discussed here. Anyway, have a good day. Carmel Turner Media Manager Royal Society of Medicine 1 Wimpole Street London W1G 0AE 020 7290 2904 07949 516471 ********* Important Notice - Disclaimer *********** This email is from the Royal Society of Medicine, Registered Charity No:- 206219 This email and any attachments may contain confidential information and/or copyright material. This email is intended for the use of the addressee only. Any unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you receive this email by mistake, please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your email software and then delete the message. Email sent to the RSM may be monitored in line with current legislation and good practice. *************************************************** ********************************************************************** 1. 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