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On 26/10/2010 13:26, C Oppenheim wrote: > "Fair use" is a legal concept that applies to USA only. The equivalent, in the UK, fair dealing, is much more limited. I made it clear that I thought reproducing recipes without permission was infringement, but that I thought the risks of being sued were low. > > I presume the final statement, "By the way, was it a colleague of yours who sent me an invitation through Linkedin y'day coincidentally few moments after I have sent out an email about misconduct of lawyers? For your information, it has been recorded in my daily log of coincidences :)" was aimed at me personally. All I can say is that no one I know would do such a thing. > > Charles > > > ________________________________________ > From: Library and Information Professionals [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brunella Longo [[log in to unmask]] > Sent: 26 October 2010 12:39 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Copyright and Recipes > > Dear Charles > > fair use does not have to be in the Law to be recognised as a fundamental > principle that enable human collaboration to achieve results, especially when > there is high uncertainty about future technologies and solutions. > > In other terms, what you have identified here as "small risks" about copying and > re-using recipes without quoting the authors, the sources, the databases you > have used etc etc can lead people to an escalation of misbehaviours (including > poisoning!) just because of the easiness of the process of making up stories in > the absence of punishments for what we all would consider a misconduct if we > were the victim of the abuse. > > Fair use cannot be easily incorporated in the law because it depends on human > behaviours, and not on technicalities. It is also true that the normative > bibliographic traditions we have been instructed to respect has matured in the > context of the printed world and it appears clearly obsolete for the digital > times. > > In fact, these days you may have written such an original contribution that > there is no need to add any further bibliography to your work because you have > also explicitly described the way in which you have achieved these findings > (including citations of people, projects, institutions, web sites, shops or > ingredients that are in the public domain or easily identifiable via common > search and reference tools). Many blog pages and wikis do not have a formal > bibliography but nevertheless they could and should be cited (and the same is > true for this email message!) formally or informally. The last solution is what > I have decided to do for a printed book published ten years ago, La nuova > editoria, quoting projects of mine, companies, technologies under development > and few primary and secondary sources of research within the main text of the > essay (it was related to e-publishing, web publishing, e-books, printing on > demand cases). > > Conversely, sometimes you are "telling a story" about your recipes, workflows, > methodologies and visions of the future with such a clear promotional intent > that it is extremely important to formally quote the sources you have used in > order to make people more aware of the potential conflicts of interests, bias, > subjective and arguable views that should be verified (and may be > contradicted) thanks to the bibliography added to your work. This is what I have > done for instance in an article of mine, Nine lives to live in a knowledge > based economy, the only article among many others I wrote in which I was > deliberately self-promoting myself to an international audience. Ten years > later, quoting the same excellent sources of that article, I must say that I > would probably write another story (especially with regard to the idealised > assumption that librarians and information professional have convenience to > "always lending on their feet"). > > So, all in all, speaking about your sources, citation services, bibliographic > traditions etc etc I would avoid to say that just because is not covered by any > law (at the moment) what you are doing in breach of fair use principle (and the > moral rights of authors) is "small risk". Whatever you practically do in order > to quote your sources and no matter the bibliographic style you choose (or the > technology you add to the publishing process), fair use principle is what enable > knowledge and scientific reasoning to achieve results. > > By the way, was it a colleague of yours who sent me an invitation through > Linkedin y'day coincidentally few moments after I have sent out an email about > misconduct of lawyers? For your information, it has been recorded in my daily > log of coincidences :) > > Cheerfully > > Brunella Longo Brunella Longo > 7 New College Court > London NW3 5EX > T +44 (0)20 72095014 (home) - +44 (0) 75 49921488 (mobile) > http://www.brunellalongo.info > > > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: C Oppenheim<[log in to unmask]> >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Sent: Tue, 26 October, 2010 8:43:22 >> Subject: Re: Copyright and Recipes >> >> Unfortunaterly, the advice you have been given is somewhat misleading. There is >> no such thing as "fair use" in UK law - that's US law and it is incorrect to >> apply it to a UK situation. In contrast to fair use, fair dealing in the UK >> can only apply for a few permitted purposes (non-commercial research or private >> study, reporting current events, criticism or review), and none of those >> purposes appear to apply to the sugested application to a book club. >> >> Each individual recipe is a copyright work in its own right. There is also >> database rights in a collection of recipes, and even taking one recipe from a >> colection might be considerated to be substantial extraction and reuse. So >> database rights might also be infringed. >> >> Nonethess, because of the modest amount of copying and small number of people >> receiving the copies, the rights owners might not become aware of the copying, >> or even if they do, are not sufficiently bothered by it to complain. >> >> To conclude: what is proposed is almost certainly infringement, but the risk >> is small. >> >> Charles >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: Library and Information Professionals [[log in to unmask]] >> On Behalf Of Sarah Bruch (Hywel Dda Health Board - ) [[log in to unmask]] >> Sent: 22 October 2010 09:27 >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Copyright and Recipes >> >> Hello, >> >> This is my Friday question. We have a bookclub in the library that has its own >> blog (see my signature). We also have cakes and treats at the bookclub as well >> as books. The club and i were wondering about the copyright issues around >> putting a recipe from a book onto our blog (we would reference it correctly of >> course). I can't find anything much to say that recipes are even under >> copyright. If anyone knows of any reason why we can't put one or two recipes > >from individual books that we've used with correct referencing please could you >> let me know. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Sarah >> >> Enw/Name: Sarah Bruch BSc (Hons), MScDip >> Teitl/ Title:Rheolwr Gwasanaethau Gwybodaeth Ysbyty Tywysog Philip/Prince >> Philip Hospital Knowledge Services Manager >> >> Llyfyrgell/Library >> Ysbyty Tywysog Philip/Prince Philip Hospital >> Dafen >> Llanelli >> Sir Gaerfyrddin/Carmarthenshire >> SA14 8QF >> >> Ffon/Tel: 01554 783467 >> Facs/Fax: 01554 749301 >> >> Did you know there is a book club in the Library at PPH on the last Thursday >> of every month? See our blog at >> http://princephiliphospitallibrarybookc.blogspot.com/ >> and get in touch with Library staff if you would like to join. >> >> Gwasanaeth Chwilio ar gyfer Llenyddiaeth >> Os nad ydych yn gallu dod o hyd i'r gwybodaeth yr ydych yn chwilio am, beth am >> ddefnyddio'r Llyfyrgell? Rydum yn gallu chwilio am uhrhyw llenyddiaeth ar gyfer >> gweithwyr Bwrdd Iechyd Hywel Dda am ddim. Danfonwch e-bost a gofynwch am >> ymchwiliad llenyddiaeth. >> >> Literature Search Service >> If you can't find the information you're looking for why not try the Library? >> We can perform searches for Hywel Dda Health Board staff free of charge! Simply >> email us and ask for a literature search. >> >> Search the Library catalogue: click here http://health-library.cf.ac.uk/ >> > In doing similar things myself, I have sometimes simply rung the publisher and asked if I may copy. They have often been so amazed that I bothered that they say "Yes"! Then you don't need legal opinion at all! Malcolm Jones