On 02-Sep-10 16:29:08, Price, Debora wrote:
> I agree.
> Debbie
>
> ***
> Debora Price, Institute of Gerontology, King's College London
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: email list for Radical Statistics
> [mailto:
[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Vassilis Monastiriotis
> Sent: 02 September 2010 16:25
> To:
[log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: New Radstats wording
>
> Same here!
>
> ===============================================
> Dr Vassilis Monastiriotis
> Hellenic Observatory, European Institute, LSE
> email:
[log in to unmask]
> ===============================================
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: email list for Radical Statistics
> [mailto:
[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of
[log in to unmask]
> Sent: 02 September 2010 16:23
> To:
[log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: New Radstats wording
>
> I was going to say the same. Now I have
> Jonathan Rosenhead
> London School of Economics
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: email list for Radical Statistics
> [mailto:
[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Nick Clark
> Sent: 02 September 2010 16:15
> To:
[log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: New Radstats wording
>
> I agree with David - and would have said the same earlier if I had
> received the original e-mail. This seems to me to be a particularly bad
> time to be retreating into blandness.
> Nick Clark
> Senior Research Fellow
> Working Lives Research Institute
>
> London Metropolitan University
> 31 Jewry Street
> London
> EC3N 2EY
>
> +44 (0)207 320 3019
>
>
www.workinglives.org
>
>
> Professor David Gordon wrote, On 02/09/2010 15:10:
>> Dear David
>>
>> Thank you for the clarification.
>>
>> If the new wording is adopted then I presume that Radstats will no
>> longer aim to use of statistics 'as part of campaigns for progressive
>
>> social change' or in 'helping build a more free, democratic and
>> egalitarian society' or continue to be interested in 'The power
>> structures within which statistical and research workers are employed
>
>> and which control the work and how it is used', etc.
>>
>> What then is the point of Radsats? and how would it differ in any
>> substantial way from the Royal Statistical Society? If Radical
>> Statistics is no longer 'radical' why should it not just wind itself
>> up and merge with some professional and/or academic organisation?
>>
>> What part of the proposed text does the Troika believe to be
>> 'radical'? I am unclear why the Troika seems to be proposing to remove
>
>> most of what is 'radical' from the aims of 'Radical Statistics'? Why
>> is a new 'mission statement' needed?
>>
>> I would personally prefer to keep the old text rather than replace it
>> with the new proposal.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> David Gordon
>>
>>
>> --On 02 September 2010 14:49 +0100 David Manley
>> <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear David,
>>>
>>> At present, the Troika have not got plans to change the second
>>> statement,
>>> just the first. I will include your response in the discussions that
> the
>>> Troika have once all the responses have been collated!
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>>
>>> David.
>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________
>>>
>>> Dr. David Manley
>>> Centre for Housing Research
>>> School of Geography and Geosciences
>>> University of St Andrews
>>>
>>> Irvine Building, North Street, St Andrews, Fife, KY16 9AL
>>> Tel: ++44(0)1334 462383, Fax: ++44(0)1334463949, Email:
>>>
[log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> Links: ESRC Seminar Series:
www.neighbourhoodeffects.org
>>> School of Geography and Geosciences:
www.st-andrews.ac.uk/gg
>>> Centre for Housing Research:
www.st-andrews.ac.uk/chr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The University of St Andrews is a charity registered in Scotland : No
>>> SC013532
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Professor David Gordon [mailto:
[log in to unmask]]
>>> Sent: 02 September 2010 14:48
>>> To: David Manley
>>> Cc:
[log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: New Radstats wording
>>>
>>> Dear David
>>>
>>> Just to clarify, are the Troike proposing to delete the current 'What
> is
>>> Radical Statistics' statement (<
http://www.radstats.org.uk/about.htm>
>
>>> and
>>> also below) and replace it with the new text in your e-mail (below)?
>>>
>>> The proposed text is fairly unobjectionable but it is not very
>>> 'Radical', I would think that the Royal Statistical Society or even
> the
>>> Statistics Commission could also have the new text as their 'mission
>>> statement'!
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> David Gordon
>>>
>>> 'The Radical Statistics Group, usually abbreviated to Radstats, was
>>> formed in 1975 as part of the radical science movement associated
> with
>>> the establishment of the British Society for Social Responsibility
> in
>>> Science (BSSRS).
>>>
>>> The researchers and statisticians who started Radstats shared a
> common
>>> concern about the political implications of their work and an
> awareness
>>> of the actual and potential misuse of statistics. Sadly, neither the
>>> BSSRS nor other organizations affiliated to the BSSRS, survived the
> 18
>>> years of Conservative rule from 1979 to 1997.
>>>
>>> RadStats is now independent of any other organisation. Members are
>>> 'radical' in being committed to helping build a more free, democratic
>
>>> and
>>> egalitarian society. Members of Radstats are concerned at the extent
> to
>>> which official statistics reflect governmental rather than social
>>> purposes. Our particular concerns are:
>>>
>>> * The mystifying use of technical language to disguise social
>>> problems as technical ones
>>> * The lack of control by the community over the aims of
> statistical
>>> investigations, the way these are conducted and the use of the
>>> information produced
>>> * The power structures within which statistical and research
> workers
>>> are employed and which control the work and how it is used
>>> * The fragmentation of social problems into specialist fields,
>>> obscuring connectedness
>>>
>>> Radstats members believe that statistics can be used as part of
>>> campaigns
>>> for progressive social change - just as they were used to support
>>> measures that led to improvements in public health in the 19th
>>> century.'
>>>
>>>
>>> The Home page of the website also has the following statement
>>>
>>> 'We believe that statistics can be used to support radical campaigns
> for
>>> progressive social change. Statistics should inform, not drive
> policies.
>>> Social problems should not be disguised by technical language.'
>>>
>>> Is the Troika proposing to also replace this with the new text?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --On 01 September 2010 10:35 +0100 David Manley
> <
[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Radstat Members,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Those of you who were at the Annual Conference in February will
>>>> remember
>>>> that a proposal was put forward to change the wording of the
> Radstats
>>>> 'mission'. At the conference we were unable to agree on a new vision
>>>> and the Troika (Along with a few others) were tasked with coming up
>>>> with
>>>> something suitable. After quite a bit of deliberation a we have
> devised
>>>> the following:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Radstats seeks to:
>>>> * Expose the assumptions which underpin decisions about the
>>>> collection, analysis and interpretation of statistics.
>>>> * Ensure these assumptions are clearly and publicly documented in
>>>> non-technical language and the statistics themselves should be
> publicly
>>>> available.
>>>> * Promote the documentation of the ways in which statistics are
> used
>>>> to justify policy decisions and monitor policy implementation
>>>> * Encourage the acceptance that the wide range of users of
> statistics
>>>> should have an influence on what is collected and how.
>>>> * Enable statisticians and other data analysts to publish their
>>>> analyses independently of employers and funders, irrespective of
>>>> whether
>>>> they work in government or other public sector organisations, or in
> the
>>>> academic, commercial or voluntary sector.
>>>>
>>>> If you agree that the new version is suitable then you need not do
>>>> anything. If, however, you are not happy with the new wording, then
>>>> please let the Troika know, and proposal an alternative. We would
>>>> like to
>>>> move foward with this quite quickly so please respond (if necessary)
> by
>>>> 15th September.
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Dr. David Manley
>>>>
>>>> Centre for Housing Research
>>>> School of Geography and Geosciences
>>>> University of St Andrews
>>>>
>>>> Irvine Building, North Street, St Andrews, Fife, KY16 9AL
>>>> Tel: ++44(0)1334 462383, Fax: ++44(0)1334463949, Email:
>>>>
[log in to unmask]
>>>>
>>>> Links: ESRC Seminar Series:
www.neighbourhoodeffects.org
>>>> School of Geography and Geosciences:
www.st-andrews.ac.uk/gg
>>>> Centre for Housing Research:
www.st-andrews.ac.uk/chr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The University of St Andrews is a charity registered in Scotland :
> No
>>>> SC013532
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------
>>> Dave Gordon
>>> Townsend Centre for International Poverty Research
>>> University of Bristol
>>> 8 Priory Road
>>> Bristol BS8 1TZ, UK
>>>
>>> E-Mail:
[log in to unmask]
>>> Tel: +44-(0)117-954 6761
>>> Fax: +44-(0)117-954 6756
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> Dave Gordon
>> Townsend Centre for International Poverty Research
>> University of Bristol
>> 8 Priory Road
>> Bristol BS8 1TZ, UK
>>
>> E-Mail:
[log in to unmask]
>> Tel: +44-(0)117-954 6761
>> Fax: +44-(0)117-954 6756
>>
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