Regards

You and me both Sharon! Do these tasks form part of the job description? I sincerely hope not! Clearly this company has lost sight of why Sharon was recruited in the first place!

Sharon, remind them you are a clinician, NOT an admin person!

Good luck!

Rita

I have a very clear vision in my head of the response I would give if I was asked to assist with admin tasks in an HR office.......

From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sharon SMith
Sent: 03 August 2010 08:59
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Salaries and Jobs

Hear Hear Amanda

I know exactly how you feel, I have built up an OH dept. from nothing, reducing absence and highlighting areas for improvement following health surveillance, but do I get any thanks???? No I get told that there isn't enough work to fill my hours and promptly have them and my salary reduced!!!!!

I am also expected to "help" with HR admin work as they are extremely busy  -   Excuse me but you don't see me sat on my backside playing at working all day long!!!!

Sorry going off on one there but yes, feeling valued is often more important than the salary!!!!

Sharon

I currently work for a Public service organisation for my sins.

Don't want to blow my own trumpet but in the last 5 years (since I've been here)  sickness absence levels have gone from 14 initially 2005, 8 in 2006, 7 in 2007, 6 in 2008/09, and is currently 5, the lowest it has ever been, these are real tangible results.
Obviously there is a team of us and I am not arrogant to say it has all been my work but I am the one who has put processes and policies in where there were none and worked very hard to get management to follow them - do I get any thanks do I H**l.

No, I get a lower than average salary & recently I was tasked with a meeting entitled 'How Can we reduce Sickness absence'......& People ask me why I am looking for a new job.....it's not just about the salary, it's about a feeling of being valued, acknowledgement & credit where it's due. For those employers out there 'thank you' goes a long way.

I'll now get off my soap box & see the next client!



Regards

Amanda Savage BSc(Hons);SpPrac OH; RGN; DON; NEBOSH
Specialist Practitioner Occupational Health
West Midlands Fire service
[log in to unmask]
Tel: 0121 380 7441
Mob: 07770863052


P Please protect the environment - think before you print.

Unless expressly stated otherwise, the information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the named recipients. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received it in error please return it immediatley to me [log in to unmask] and then destroy it.

The information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 unless the information is legally exempt from disclosure


-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lindsey Hall
Sent: 30 July 2010 14:37
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Salaries and Jobs

Hi, just to add my bit, I think there are a number of things at play here.

1) Basis salary.  If you take 35k per year (a fairly typical salary that
appears to be on offer at present), divide by 46 weeks per year and then by
37 hours you get £20.56 - hence the fairly common rate of £20 an hour or so
that many agencies are offering at present.  I argue for more based on a) 20
+ years experience b) being contracted and on a sessional rate comes with
advantages but also disadvantages - mainly, you can be dumped very quickly
with very little comeback and for all sorts of reasons unrelated to your
competence, and c) I happen to think I do a good job and will bring added
value to companies I work for.

2) History of qualifications.  Although I like to think that I can do all
that most OHPs can do now, may have a broader knowledge of OH and can often
write a better report to managers, the fact of the matter is that I left
school with 2 mediocre A levels, fell into nursing by accident and hell
would have frozen over before I achieved the academic qualifications
required for med school even if I had wanted to go. There is no doubt that
between the ages of 16 and 25, the trainee doctors and lawyers of the time
were a lot cleverer and motivated than I was.  Therefore that uni/law
school/med school training has to count for something whether 20 years later
we like it or not.

3) the Meerkat - sorry market. About 10 years ago, a particular agency (who
incidentally I have a lot of respect for but who will remain nameless for
the sake of this email), came into the market and offered better rates of
pay than everyone else.  Hence, everyone looking, registered with them. If
you were at the other end of the telescope looking to recruit, you could
approach all the other agencies and wait weeks, yet said agency above would
provide you with 2 or 3 reasonable candidates quite quickly.  If you were
keen to appoint, you paid up, usually achieved a good appointment and
everyone was happy.

In recent years, the recruitment market has expanded so any one agency is
not able to influence the market in the same way and things have levelled
out aided by a recession.  There is a lot of price - and therefore salary -
competition out there.  The Providers get a lot of stick from all sides on
this forum but they are in a toughening market, trying to get business in
preference to competitors.  The purchases will screw them as much as
possible as they are in a toughening market too.  Unfortunately much of this
has led to the commoditisation of OH - organisations see OH as a product,
not a service and something they can buy off the shelf and that is done for
them.  They don't see it as something they have to get involved with too
much - hence the hamsters wheel of perpetual referrals that many of the
provider services provide because they are asked to.  The sad thing is that
despite all the achievements of KPIs etc, I often find that no-one has taken
a step back to ask what the problem really is?  Often that is much deeper
than the reason for absence given on the referral form.

Until we can demonstrate that we are making a real difference to business
and their bottom line, levels of absence and performance, we will always
struggle to get paid what we believe we're worth.  When you are working
through an agency, that is in turn working through a provider who has just
finished some tough negotiations with your average purchaser, it's a tough
sell.

Not sure if I have answered your original question Glenn but may have added
a fuel to other arguments highlighted in this particularly thread.

Thanks

Lindsey




-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of Naylor, Sharon [HMPS]
Sent: 30 July 2010 13:10
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Salaries and Jobs

Maybe we should try it, all of us, from now on - there is an old saying
about paying peanuts and getting monkeys. As a rather more mature OHA would
like to think that I would be renumerated for my level of skill in my
particular field that I have amply demonstrated over time rather than being
dismissed as " a nurse " who will therefore accept a rate of £blah.  In my
opinion we all get "lumped together" , and that may be a cultural thing .
Other professionals that have been mentioned (Dr`s legal people) all charge
what they think they are WORTH, however as a profession we have always
accepted what is dished out to us - and whose fault is that? Personally
thats why I dont use the title of "nurse" any more.

In the past I had a conversation with someone I trained with in prehistoric
times about pay - she was being fairly disparaging as she felt much maligned
that I had a 9 - 5 job on a considerably higher salary than her. She worked
in a nursing home. Her arguement was that we were the "same", that we were
both "nurses" so what gave me the right to earn more than her? I think this
is common - I have peers who feel that  they do the "same job" as other
OHA`s but are paid less. Well sorry but if you pitch your expctation low
then thats what you will get -  If this kind of attitude comes from within
our own ranks then what hope is there that the rest of the world will catch
on?


-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of Glenn Raybone
Sent: 30 July 2010 12:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Salaries and Jobs

Thanks Phil

so could I (and my colleagues) adopt this when we ask about roles and state
what we'd like to be paid?

Glenn

********************************
Please remove this footer before replying.

OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html

CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH

This email was received from the INTERNET and scanned by the Government
Secure Intranet anti-virus service supplied by Cable&Wireless Worldwide in
partnership with MessageLabs. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) In
case of problems, please call your organisation's IT Helpdesk.
Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or
recorded for legal purposes.

The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure
Intranet virus scanning service supplied by Cable&Wireless Worldwide in
partnership with MessageLabs. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) On
leaving the GSi this email was certified virus free.
Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or
recorded for legal purposes.

********************************
Please remove this footer before replying.

OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html

CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 5324 (20100729) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com




__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 5326 (20100730) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com


********************************
Please remove this footer before replying.

OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html

CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH

West Midlands Fire Service

Unless expressly stated otherwise, the information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the named recipients. You must not copy, distribute, or take any action or reliance upon it. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received it in error please notify us immediately on 0121 380 6666 or return it to mailto:[log in to unmask] and then destroy it.

The information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Unless the information is legally exempt from disclosure, the confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed.

Any opinions expressed in this e-mail (including attachments) are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of West Midlands Fire Service. Nothing in this e-mail message amounts to a contractual or other legal commitment on the part of West Midlands Fire Service unless confirmed by a communication signed on behalf of the Chief Fire Officer.

West Midlands Fire Service information is available from http://www.wmfs.net

This footnote also confirms that this e-mail message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses but does not guarantee that it is free from viruses and you should check all e-mail and attachments with your own anti-virus systems.

********************************
Please remove this footer before replying.

OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html

CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH

________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses on behalf of
DENSO Marston Limited by MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service.


******************************** Please remove this footer before replying.

OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html

CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH
This email was received from the INTERNET and scanned by the Government Secure Intranet anti-virus service supplied by Cable&Wireless Worldwide in partnership with MessageLabs. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) In case of problems, please call your organisation’s IT Helpdesk.
Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes.

The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet virus scanning service supplied by Cable&Wireless Worldwide in partnership with MessageLabs. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus free.
Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes.

Email Disclaimer