Other reasons for poor collections might be:
Small bookfunds - either impoverished councils or lack of understanding at
the top, of how important they are (how important literacy is)
Undertrained librarians and the lack of professional posts (plus the
difficulty of recruiting to public libraries) may have an effect
Anyway - I'd better go - supposed to be putting books on library shelves
this afternoon....
Alyson Hogarth
Stock Manager
Middlesbrough Libraries and Information
01642 729420
Mick Fortune <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: "lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries" <[log in to unmask]>
24/08/2010 15:32
Please respond to
Mick Fortune <[log in to unmask]>
To
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Re: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public libraries
Alyson/Judith
Well it was a question, not a statement and I stand by the fact that many
bookshops used Nielsen BookScan to determine what was popular and that
many libraries appear interested in their Libscan product to do much the
same. Although that belies the sophistication of the Nielsen products
which may be profiled to improve selection criteria beyond the obvious.
I'm guessing that Leeds and Middlesbrough use supplier selection? - and
clearly use it wisely - but what I have been hearing in phone-ins, on TV
debates and in various blogs and articles over the last few days is a
suggestion that there may be a lack of depth in SOME library collections.
I was merely speculating on why that might be.
Good plug for NAG though :)
I'm all in favour of EDI - I even wrote Word macros to enable small
publishers with limited access to technology to take orders from libraries
(for free) when I was responsible for EDI services at Nielsen. I was
making the point that the demand for its use by the major chains has
reduced the number of publishers from whom we can buy. Just saying?
Certainly agree with all the other observations. Especially that bookshops
and libraries are very different animals. And that there's very little
data to back up the numbers being bandied about. Like saving £1 million by
applying book supply chain principles?
Good to know there still people out there who still care about quality.
And that recognise the political nature of the debate.
Mick
Mick Fortune
m. +44 (0)7786 625544
Can you afford NOT to attend this year's RFID conference?
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Stringer
Sent: 24 August 2010 14:57
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public
libraries
The basic business ideal is never let the seller be also the buyer! My
overseas colleagues were appalled when I told them we were naive enough to
let our suppliers chose our stock. In many countries the equivalent of MLA
does selection and then libraries buy from them, this of course means that
the MLA equivalent gets big discounts, But they also source small
suppliers.
When the public hear that we pass on the responsibility of purchase to our
suppliers however well we write our specs it still looks like we are
relinquishing our core activity
Laura
The original idea of getting bigger discounts was to get more books not
spend less money
One of the reasons the book fund is a smaller proportion of total spend is
not that it has decreased but other charges have risen much faster. Check
out how much of your budget is internal recharges. Often its almost 40%
thats for HR H&S insurance Chief Execs wage etc.And when faced with cuts
you can never reduce this part of your budget !
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Alyson Hogarth <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Supplier selection and consortia buying might save money but doesn't it
tend
to result in shelves being filled with only the most popular titles?
No it doesn't!!! First of all a wise stock manager will not hand
over all her bookfund to her supplier but keep some back for reader
requests, retrospective purchasing (stock gaps) reviewed material, prizes,
local authors etc etc etc
Secondly, it's down to how we the libarians instruct our suppliers
to select for us. A good spec will let the supplier know what sort of
authority with what sorts of libraries and what sorts of borrowers eg
large library in affluent middle class suburb or smaller less well-used
urban housing estate and all permutations around and about. The same spec
can and should be used by the librarians selecting in house.
Several years ago NAG produced a Supply Specification Guideline
document - still freely available on the NAG website
http://www.nag.org.uk/publications/SupplySpecificationPublication.php
This year at our conference Maggie Sumner who wrote that document
and I will be leading a workshop to start the process of updating this
document. (Still places available)
Obviously savings can be made by making the supply chain as efficient as
possible and supplier selection and EDI are two important factors. what
worries me most - and this is political and economic - is that figures are
bandied about regarding costs which have no known basis. Has anyone really
costed out what it costs to put a book on a library shelf. What do you
include in the calculation? Wages of the lady (usually) who jacketed it at
the supplier, wages of librarian at either supplier or library who
selected it? What about diesel in the wagon that brought it, truck drivers
wages?
See what I mean?
Much was made in Better Stock Better Libraries of the saving that can be
made through consortia (usually just better discounts because more money
in a single contract) and because the costs of the library services of
going out to tender are reduced by paying the lead authority to do it. The
weakness of that document was that it did not have hard facts to back up
the figures it was using. The political bit of course is that Finance
Officers' eyes lit up at the thought, and the worry that having already
got efficient we would be asked to do even more.
Which is cuts. Oh yes, cuts!
Unfortunately journalists don't tend to think like that so we get figures
of unknown origin bandied about and people believing them.
If anyone does have a calculation they use I would love to see it, and to
know what you included to arrive at it.
Finally -as one of my colleagues asked this morning, what's the relevance
of how much it costs to put a book on a library shelf. Of course it's
going to cost more because we want jackets, barcodes, RFID tags, MARC
data. But we're not bookshops and we're not out to/able to make a profit.
Bookshop/library - not really comparable.
Alyson Hogarth
Stock Manager
Middlesbrough Libraries and Information
01642 729420
Mick Fortune <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: "lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries" <[log in to unmask]>
24/08/2010 13:57
Please respond to
Mick Fortune <[log in to unmask]>
To
[log in to unmask]
cc
Subject
Re: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public libraries
Supplier selection and consortia buying might save money but doesn't it
tend
to result in shelves being filled with only the most popular titles?
I learned two things from my time at Nielsen.
- It's easy to get a list of the most popular titles and just buy those.
That's what many bookshops have done and now libraries want to do the
same.
You'll get more for your money too, since the best sellers are more often
discounted. However by doing so you're competing head on with Amazon and
Tesco since you will no longer stock the range that used to make visiting
the library such an enjoyable experience.
- The need to trade electronically (to increase efficiencies and save
money)
has seen the major bookshop chain(s) steadily reduce the number of
publishers they buy from. Anyone who didn't support EDI tended to be
crossed
off of the supplier list. This reduces the choice of books that are
available for libraries to buy as well.
There also seems to be a widely held belief that the lessons of the book
supply chain can be applied to libraries and that huge savings will accrue
as a result. My own current passion, RFID, is often cited as being key to
applying these lessons. Having run a major library systems house (in its
better days) and Nielsen Booknet (for both libraries and publishing) and
now
working on standards for RFID I think I can say with some confidence that
this simply isn't likely.
The future of library services is a political issue, not a cultural one.
Earlier in the year I was at a presentation where a major system vendor
told
the audience that they would soon have to stop being librarians and start
learning how to become delivery agents for local authority services. The
fact that such a scenario would suit the supplier in question very nicely
thank you, wasn't challenged by any of the librarians in the room. It
seems
libraries have been at the bottom of most local authority's priority lists
for so long that most of them are just grateful to have a role.
I think we need to be clear about what we think that role should be.
Mick
Mick Fortune
m. +44 (0)7786 625544
Can you afford NOT to attend this year's RFID conference?
-----Original Message-----
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:
[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Laura Swaffield
Sent: 24 August 2010 13:03
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public
libraries
What always puzzles me is that books (some of them anyway) have got
cheaper
and public libraries (quite a few of them anyway) have got much more
efficient at book buying, via supplier selection, consortium purchasing
etc.
So you would expect less to be spent on books.
Nobody ever tries to quantify the effect of all this.
Laura Swaffield
CILIP Update
________________________________________
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of DAVID TUXFORD [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 24 August 2010 13:01
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Fw: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public
libraries
---------------------- Information from the mail header
-----------------------
Sender: "lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries"
<[log in to unmask]>
Poster: DAVID TUXFORD <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fw: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public
libraries
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The most surprising thing about this morning's debate (especially given
Ric=
hard =0ACharkin's position) was surely that neither participant mentioned
t=
he =0Aprogressive reduction over many years in the proportion of the
public=
library =0Abudget spent on books. Fewer books, fewer users (sorry,
'custom=
ers'). Is this =0Awhat they call a no-brainer?=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Forwarded
=
Message ----=0AFrom: Eric Davies <[log in to unmask]>=0ATo:
LIS-PUB-=
[log in to unmask]: Tuesday, 24 August, 2010 10:02:34=0ASubject:
Re=
: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public
libraries=0A=0AT=
erence Blacker: Hands off our public libraries =0AThis morning's Today
pro=
gramme included this item =0A-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid=
_8939000/8939086.stm - summarised =0Aas: 'The government says the
library=
services need to be reshaped due to the =0Afall in the number of library
=
goers. Richard Charkin, of Bloomsbury Publishing, =0Aand author Marina
Lew=
ycka debate why people do not use libraries as much as =0Athey used
to'=0A=
=0AEric=0A =0A---=0A =0AEric Davies=0A =0AEuropean Information Services /
=
Coordinator, European Information Association =0A(part-time only)=0APO
Box=
28=0AMold=0ACH7 6FE=0A =0ATel: +44 (0) 1352 700051=0Awww.eia.org.uk
=0Ahtt=
p://twitter.com/euroinfo=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Holder, Ali =0ASent: Tuesday,
Aug=
ust 24, 2010 9:49 AM=0ATo: [log in to unmask] =0ASubject: Re: The
=
Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public libraries=0A=0AHas
e=
veryone also seen the discussion arising from this article on Mumsnet?
=0AI=
t=E2=80=99s been all over Twitter:=0Ahttp://
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_bein=
g_unreasonable/1025834-to-think-that-we-NEED-libraries-This-is-horrific=0A=
=0AAli=0A =0AFrom:lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:
LIS-PUB-LIBS@JI=
SCMAIL.AC.UK] On =0ABehalf Of [log in to unmask]: 23
August=
2010 13:17=0ATo: [log in to unmask]: The Independent
--=
Terence Blacker: Hands off our public libraries=0A =0Af.devine@manchester
=
.gov.uk has sent you this article from The Independent. =0AMessage from
f=
[log in to unmask]:=0AHave a look at this article from Friday's
Ind=
ependent. I'm glad someone in the =0Amedia is championing libraries. =0A=
=0A=0A*********************************************************************=
**************=0A=0AWestminster City Council switchboard: +44 20 7641
600=
0=0Awww.westminster.gov.uk
=0A**********************************************=
*************************************=0A=0AThis E-Mail may contain
informa=
tion which is privileged, confidential and =0Aprotected from disclosure.
=
=0A=0AIf you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail or any part of
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it, please =0Atelephone Westminster City Council immediately on receipt.=
=0AYou should not disclose the contents to any other person or take
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--0-363616803-1282651277=:34762
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;}
--></style></he=
ad><body><div
ad>style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12p=
t"><div>The most surprising thing about this morning's debate (especially
g=
iven Richard Charkin's position) was surely that neither participant
mentio=
ned the progressive reduction over many years in the proportion of the
publ=
ic library budget spent on books. Fewer books, fewer users (sorry,
'custome=
rs'). Is this what they call a no-brainer?<br></div><div
style=3D"fon=
t-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div
style=3D"f=
ont-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font
s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma">----- Forwarded Message ----<br><b><span
style=3D=
"font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Eric Davies
<eiamanager@BTINTERNET=
.COM><br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
LIS-PUB-LI=
[log in to unmask]<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight:
bold;">Sent:</span></b>=
Tuesday,
24 August, 2010 10:02:34<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight:
bold;">Subject:=
</span></b> Re: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public
li=
braries<br></font><br>=0A<title>Terence Blacker: Hands off our public
libra=
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rif";color:#555555;}=0Ap.icxdeckheader, li.icxdeckheader,
div.icxdeckheader=
=0A=09{margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"serif=
";font-style:italic;}=0Aspan.EmailStyle37=0A=09{font-family:"sans-serif";co=
lor:#1F497D;}=0A.MsoChpDefault=0A=09{font-size:10.0pt;}=0A _filtered
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72.0pt;}=0Adiv.Section1=0A=09{}=0A-->=0A</style>=0A=
=0A<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Arial">This
morning's&nb=
sp;Today programme =0Aincluded this item - <a rel=3D"nofollow" title=
=3D"http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8939000/8939086.stm=0ACTRL
=
+ Click to follow link" target=3D"_blank"
+ href=3D"http://news.bbc.co.uk/tod=
ay/hi/today/newsid_8939000/8939086.stm">
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/toda=
y/newsid_8939000/8939086.stm</a> - =0Asummarised as: '</font><font
siz=
e=3D"2" color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Arial">The government says =0Athe
library=
services need to be reshaped due to the fall in the number of =0Alibrary
g=
oers. Richard Charkin, of Bloomsbury Publishing, and author Marina
=0ALewyc=
ka debate why people do not use libraries as much as they used
=0Ato'</font=
></div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000080"
>face=3D"Arial"></font>&nb=
sp;</div>=0A<div><font face=3D"Arial"><font size=3D"2"
color=3D"#000080">Er=
ic</font></font></div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000080"
face=3D"Ar=
ial"></font> </div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000080"
face=3D"=
Arial">---</font></div>=0A<div> </div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" color=
=3D"#000080" face=3D"Arial">Eric
Davies</font></div>=0A<div> </div>=0A=
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Arial">European
Information=
Services / =0ACoordinator, European Information Association (part-time
onl=
y)<br>PO Box =0A28<br>Mold<br>CH7
6FE</font></div>=0A<div> </div>=0A<d=
iv><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Arial">Tel: +44 (0) 1352
iv>7000=
51<br><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.eia.org.uk
">=
www.eia.org.uk</a><br><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"
href=3D"http://=
twitter.com/euroinfo">http://twitter.com/euroinfo
</a><br></font></div>=0A<d=
iv style=3D"font: 10pt Tahoma;">=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div
style=3D"backgrou=
nd: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(245, 245, 245);">=0A<div
style=3D""><b>Fro=
m:</b> <a rel=3D"nofollow" title=3D"[log in to unmask]"
ymailto=3D"=
mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:
aholder=
@WESTMINSTER.GOV.UK">Holder, Ali</a> </div>=0A<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday,
Au=
gust 24, 2010 9:49 AM</div>=0A<div><b>To:</b> <a rel=3D"nofollow"
title=3D"=
[log in to unmask]" ymailto=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]
"=
target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]
">LIS-PUB-LIBS=
@JISCMAIL.AC.UK</a> </div>=0A<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: The Independent --
Te=
rence Blacker: Hands off our =0Apublic
libraries</div></div></div>=0A<div><=
br></div>=0A<div class=3D"Section1">=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span
br>style=
=3D"font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;">H=
as =0Aeveryone also seen the discussion arising from this article on
Mumsne=
t? It=E2=80=99s =0Abeen all over Twitter:<br></span><span
style=3D"font-fam=
ily: 'sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"
=
href=3D"
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1025834-to-thin=
k-that-we-NEED-libraries-This-is-horrific">
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i=
_being_unreasonable/1025834-to-think-that-we-NEED-libraries-This-is-horrifi=
c</a></span></p> =0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:
'san=
s-serif'; font-size: 10pt;">Ali</span></p> =0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span
=
style=3D"font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11p=
t;"> </span></p> =0A<div>=0A<div style=3D"border-width: 1pt medium
me=
dium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223)
-moz-=
use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">=0A<p
style=3D"m=
argin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:
'sa=
ns-serif'; font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style=3D"=
font-family: 'sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US">
=0Alis-pub-lib=
s: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <b>On
=0ABehalf=
Of </b><a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"
t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">
f.devine@manche=
ster.gov.uk</a><br><b>Sent:</b> =0A23 August 2010 13:17<br><b>To:</b> <a
re=
l=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"
target=3D"_bl=
ank" href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">
[log in to unmask]
K</a><br><b>Subject:</b> =0AThe Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off
o=
ur public =0Alibraries</span></p></div></div> =0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">
&n=
bsp;</p> =0A<div>=0A<p style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"
class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(85, 85, 85);
font-size:=
9pt;">[log in to unmask] =0Ahas sent you this article from The
Ind=
ependent. </span></p></div> =0A<div>=0A<p><span style=3D"font-family:
'sans=
-serif'; color: rgb(85, 85, 85); font-size: 9pt;">Message =0Afrom
f.devine@=
manchester.gov.uk:</span></p></div> =0A<div>=0A<p style=3D"margin-bottom:
0=
pt; background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(218, 218, 218); margin-left:
7=
.5pt; margin-right: 7.5pt;" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span
style=3D"font-family:=
'sans-serif'; color: rgb(85, 85, 85); font-size: 11.5pt;">Have =0Aa look
a=
t this article from Friday's Independent. I'm glad someone in the media
=0A=
is championing libraries. </span></p></div></div><font
size=3D"3"><br><br>*=
***************************************************************************=
*******<br>Westminster =0ACity Council switchboard: +44 20 7641
=0A6000<br>=
<span><a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.westminster.gov.uk">
www.westm=
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