And I will second Alyson!!! Everything she says about fund management and selection and specification processes is absolutely true! And all her succeeding points are very good ones
"It's easy to get a list of the most popular titles and just buy those.
That's what many bookshops have done and now libraries want to do the same".
is an incredibly sweeping statement and while I can't speak for every library authority, I know that lots will join me in saying that it is simply not true.
Judith
---------------------------------------------------
Judith Rhodes
Stock Services Librarian
Leeds Library & Information Service
[log in to unmask]
tel. 0113 395 2335
Reading recommendations -
I've been reading my fictional way around Africa recently, but am just moving into China by way of Qiu Xiaolong's excellent detective novels. I read "Death of a Red Heroine" when it first came out, and it's high time I caught up with the subsequent doings of Inspector Chen, one of Shanghai's Finest. As well as being an exemplary policeman, he's also a published poet - though in a rather different mould from our own dear Adam Dalgliesh.
________________________________
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Alyson Hogarth
Sent: 24 August 2010 14:22
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public libraries
Supplier selection and consortia buying might save money but doesn't it tend
to result in shelves being filled with only the most popular titles?
No it doesn't!!! First of all a wise stock manager will not hand over all her bookfund to her supplier but keep some back for reader requests, retrospective purchasing (stock gaps) reviewed material, prizes, local authors etc etc etc
Secondly, it's down to how we the libarians instruct our suppliers to select for us. A good spec will let the supplier know what sort of authority with what sorts of libraries and what sorts of borrowers eg large library in affluent middle class suburb or smaller less well-used urban housing estate and all permutations around and about. The same spec can and should be used by the librarians selecting in house.
Several years ago NAG produced a Supply Specification Guideline document - still freely available on the NAG website
http://www.nag.org.uk/publications/SupplySpecificationPublication.php
This year at our conference Maggie Sumner who wrote that document and I will be leading a workshop to start the process of updating this document. (Still places available)
Obviously savings can be made by making the supply chain as efficient as possible and supplier selection and EDI are two important factors. what worries me most - and this is political and economic - is that figures are bandied about regarding costs which have no known basis. Has anyone really costed out what it costs to put a book on a library shelf. What do you include in the calculation? Wages of the lady (usually) who jacketed it at the supplier, wages of librarian at either supplier or library who selected it? What about diesel in the wagon that brought it, truck drivers wages?
See what I mean?
Much was made in Better Stock Better Libraries of the saving that can be made through consortia (usually just better discounts because more money in a single contract) and because the costs of the library services of going out to tender are reduced by paying the lead authority to do it. The weakness of that document was that it did not have hard facts to back up the figures it was using. The political bit of course is that Finance Officers' eyes lit up at the thought, and the worry that having already got efficient we would be asked to do even more.
Which is cuts. Oh yes, cuts!
Unfortunately journalists don't tend to think like that so we get figures of unknown origin bandied about and people believing them.
If anyone does have a calculation they use I would love to see it, and to know what you included to arrive at it.
Finally -as one of my colleagues asked this morning, what's the relevance of how much it costs to put a book on a library shelf. Of course it's going to cost more because we want jackets, barcodes, RFID tags, MARC data. But we're not bookshops and we're not out to/able to make a profit. Bookshop/library - not really comparable.
Alyson Hogarth
Stock Manager
Middlesbrough Libraries and Information
01642 729420
Mick Fortune <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: "lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries" <[log in to unmask]>
24/08/2010 13:57
Please respond to
Mick Fortune <[log in to unmask]>
To
[log in to unmask]
cc
Subject
Re: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public libraries
Supplier selection and consortia buying might save money but doesn't it tend
to result in shelves being filled with only the most popular titles?
I learned two things from my time at Nielsen.
- It's easy to get a list of the most popular titles and just buy those.
That's what many bookshops have done and now libraries want to do the same.
You'll get more for your money too, since the best sellers are more often
discounted. However by doing so you're competing head on with Amazon and
Tesco since you will no longer stock the range that used to make visiting
the library such an enjoyable experience.
- The need to trade electronically (to increase efficiencies and save money)
has seen the major bookshop chain(s) steadily reduce the number of
publishers they buy from. Anyone who didn't support EDI tended to be crossed
off of the supplier list. This reduces the choice of books that are
available for libraries to buy as well.
There also seems to be a widely held belief that the lessons of the book
supply chain can be applied to libraries and that huge savings will accrue
as a result. My own current passion, RFID, is often cited as being key to
applying these lessons. Having run a major library systems house (in its
better days) and Nielsen Booknet (for both libraries and publishing) and now
working on standards for RFID I think I can say with some confidence that
this simply isn't likely.
The future of library services is a political issue, not a cultural one.
Earlier in the year I was at a presentation where a major system vendor told
the audience that they would soon have to stop being librarians and start
learning how to become delivery agents for local authority services. The
fact that such a scenario would suit the supplier in question very nicely
thank you, wasn't challenged by any of the librarians in the room. It seems
libraries have been at the bottom of most local authority's priority lists
for so long that most of them are just grateful to have a role.
I think we need to be clear about what we think that role should be.
Mick
Mick Fortune
m. +44 (0)7786 625544
Can you afford NOT to attend this year's RFID conference?
-----Original Message-----
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Laura Swaffield
Sent: 24 August 2010 13:03
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public
libraries
What always puzzles me is that books (some of them anyway) have got cheaper
and public libraries (quite a few of them anyway) have got much more
efficient at book buying, via supplier selection, consortium purchasing etc.
So you would expect less to be spent on books.
Nobody ever tries to quantify the effect of all this.
Laura Swaffield
CILIP Update
________________________________________
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of DAVID TUXFORD [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 24 August 2010 13:01
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Fw: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public
libraries
---------------------- Information from the mail header
-----------------------
Sender: "lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries"
<[log in to unmask]>
Poster: DAVID TUXFORD <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fw: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public
libraries
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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The most surprising thing about this morning's debate (especially given Ric=
hard =0ACharkin's position) was surely that neither participant mentioned t=
he =0Aprogressive reduction over many years in the proportion of the public=
library =0Abudget spent on books. Fewer books, fewer users (sorry, 'custom=
ers'). Is this =0Awhat they call a no-brainer?=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Forwarded =
Message ----=0AFrom: Eric Davies <[log in to unmask]>=0ATo: LIS-PUB-=
[log in to unmask]: Tuesday, 24 August, 2010 10:02:34=0ASubject: Re=
: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public libraries=0A=0AT=
erence Blacker: Hands off our public libraries =0AThis morning's Today pro=
gramme included this item =0A- http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid=
_8939000/8939086.stm - summarised =0Aas: 'The government says the library=
services need to be reshaped due to the =0Afall in the number of library =
goers. Richard Charkin, of Bloomsbury Publishing, =0Aand author Marina Lew=
ycka debate why people do not use libraries as much as =0Athey used to'=0A=
=0AEric=0A =0A---=0A =0AEric Davies=0A =0AEuropean Information Services / =
Coordinator, European Information Association =0A(part-time only)=0APO Box=
28=0AMold=0ACH7 6FE=0A =0ATel: +44 (0) 1352 700051=0Awww.eia.org.uk=0Ahtt=
p://twitter.com/euroinfo=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Holder, Ali =0ASent: Tuesday, Aug=
ust 24, 2010 9:49 AM=0ATo: [log in to unmask] =0ASubject: Re: The =
Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public libraries=0A=0AHas e=
veryone also seen the discussion arising from this article on Mumsnet? =0AI=
t=E2=80=99s been all over Twitter:=0Ahttp://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_bein=
g_unreasonable/1025834-to-think-that-we-NEED-libraries-This-is-horrific=0A=
=0AAli=0A =0AFrom:lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:LIS-PUB-LIBS@JI=
SCMAIL.AC.UK] On =0ABehalf Of [log in to unmask]: 23 August=
2010 13:17=0ATo: [log in to unmask]: The Independent --=
Terence Blacker: Hands off our public libraries=0A =0Af.devine@manchester=
.gov.uk has sent you this article from The Independent. =0AMessage from f=
[log in to unmask]:=0AHave a look at this article from Friday's Ind=
ependent. I'm glad someone in the =0Amedia is championing libraries. =0A=
=0A=0A*********************************************************************=
**************=0A=0AWestminster City Council switchboard: +44 20 7641 600=
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--0-363616803-1282651277=:34762
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div
ad>style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12p=
t"><div>The most surprising thing about this morning's debate (especially g=
iven Richard Charkin's position) was surely that neither participant mentio=
ned the progressive reduction over many years in the proportion of the publ=
ic library budget spent on books. Fewer books, fewer users (sorry, 'custome=
rs'). Is this what they call a no-brainer?<br></div><div style=3D"fon=
t-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style=3D"f=
ont-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma">----- Forwarded Message ----<br><b><span style=3D=
"font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Eric Davies <eiamanager@BTINTERNET=
.COM><br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> LIS-PUB-LI=
[log in to unmask]<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>=
Tuesday,
24 August, 2010 10:02:34<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:=
</span></b> Re: The Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off our public li=
braries<br></font><br>=0A<title>Terence Blacker: Hands off our public libra=
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=0A<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Arial">This morning's&nb=
sp;Today programme =0Aincluded this item - <a rel=3D"nofollow" title=
=3D"http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8939000/8939086.stm=0ACTRL =
+ Click to follow link" target=3D"_blank"
+ href=3D"http://news.bbc.co.uk/tod=
ay/hi/today/newsid_8939000/8939086.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/toda=
y/newsid_8939000/8939086.stm</a> - =0Asummarised as: '</font><font siz=
e=3D"2" color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Arial">The government says =0Athe library=
services need to be reshaped due to the fall in the number of =0Alibrary g=
oers. Richard Charkin, of Bloomsbury Publishing, and author Marina =0ALewyc=
ka debate why people do not use libraries as much as they used =0Ato'</font=
></div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000080"
>face=3D"Arial"></font>&nb=
sp;</div>=0A<div><font face=3D"Arial"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000080">Er=
ic</font></font></div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Ar=
ial"></font> </div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000080" face=3D"=
Arial">---</font></div>=0A<div> </div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" color=
=3D"#000080" face=3D"Arial">Eric Davies</font></div>=0A<div> </div>=0A=
<div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Arial">European Information=
Services / =0ACoordinator, European Information Association (part-time onl=
y)<br>PO Box =0A28<br>Mold<br>CH7 6FE</font></div>=0A<div> </div>=0A<d=
iv><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Arial">Tel: +44 (0) 1352
iv>7000=
51<br><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.eia.org.uk">=
www.eia.org.uk</a><br><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://=
twitter.com/euroinfo">http://twitter.com/euroinfo</a><br></font></div>=0A<d=
iv style=3D"font: 10pt Tahoma;">=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div style=3D"backgrou=
nd: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(245, 245, 245);">=0A<div style=3D""><b>Fro=
m:</b> <a rel=3D"nofollow" title=3D"[log in to unmask]" ymailto=3D"=
mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:aholder=
@WESTMINSTER.GOV.UK">Holder, Ali</a> </div>=0A<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, Au=
gust 24, 2010 9:49 AM</div>=0A<div><b>To:</b> <a rel=3D"nofollow" title=3D"=
[log in to unmask]" ymailto=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=
target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">LIS-PUB-LIBS=
@JISCMAIL.AC.UK</a> </div>=0A<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: The Independent -- Te=
rence Blacker: Hands off our =0Apublic libraries</div></div></div>=0A<div><=
br></div>=0A<div class=3D"Section1">=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span
br>style=
=3D"font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">H=
as =0Aeveryone also seen the discussion arising from this article on Mumsne=
t? It=E2=80=99s =0Abeen all over Twitter:<br></span><span style=3D"font-fam=
ily: 'sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1025834-to-thin=
k-that-we-NEED-libraries-This-is-horrific">http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i=
_being_unreasonable/1025834-to-think-that-we-NEED-libraries-This-is-horrifi=
c</a></span></p> =0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: 'san=
s-serif'; font-size: 10pt;">Ali</span></p> =0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11p=
t;"> </span></p> =0A<div>=0A<div style=3D"border-width: 1pt medium me=
dium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-=
use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">=0A<p style=3D"m=
argin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family: 'sa=
ns-serif'; font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"=
font-family: 'sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US"> =0Alis-pub-lib=
s: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <b>On =0ABehalf=
Of </b><a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">f.devine@manche=
ster.gov.uk</a><br><b>Sent:</b> =0A23 August 2010 13:17<br><b>To:</b> <a re=
l=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_bl=
ank" href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
K</a><br><b>Subject:</b> =0AThe Independent -- Terence Blacker: Hands off o=
ur public =0Alibraries</span></p></div></div> =0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> &n=
bsp;</p> =0A<div>=0A<p style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(85, 85, 85); font-size:=
9pt;">[log in to unmask] =0Ahas sent you this article from The Ind=
ependent. </span></p></div> =0A<div>=0A<p><span style=3D"font-family: 'sans=
-serif'; color: rgb(85, 85, 85); font-size: 9pt;">Message =0Afrom f.devine@=
manchester.gov.uk:</span></p></div> =0A<div>=0A<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 0=
pt; background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(218, 218, 218); margin-left: 7=
.5pt; margin-right: 7.5pt;" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:=
'sans-serif'; color: rgb(85, 85, 85); font-size: 11.5pt;">Have =0Aa look a=
t this article from Friday's Independent. I'm glad someone in the media =0A=
is championing libraries. </span></p></div></div><font size=3D"3"><br><br>*=
***************************************************************************=
*******<br>Westminster =0ACity Council switchboard: +44 20 7641 =0A6000<br>=
<span><a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.westminster.gov.uk">www.westm=
inster.gov.uk</a></span><br>***********************************************=
************************************<br>This =0AE-Mail may contain informat=
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>If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail or any =0Apart of
>it,=
please telephone Westminster City Council immediately on =0Areceipt.<br>Yo=
u should not disclose the contents to any other person or take =0Acopies.<b=
r>**********************************************************************
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