In our Trust we accept IVS bloods done in the UK indefinitely and always stress when doing them ourselves the professional responsibility of the EPP worker to get themselves followed up following risk. Locums (Agency) and those new to the NHS are also only required to produce the evidence once. I understood the DH Guidelines to mean that all professionals are accountable for their status after the initial test. An annual test is surely no scientific way of assuring freedom from infection anyway – seems quite arbitrary. I know this may sound naïve but we have to have some trust somewhere. Also I understood Grandfather rights to mean that docs etc already in the NHS and not in new EPP training after the introduction of the tests did not need them ‘retrospectively’.

Are my perceptions wrong?

Mary Smolen

Staff Nurse

Occupational Health Department

Royal Bournemouth Hospital

Tel: 01202 704215

Fax: 01202 704513

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-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Peter Judge
Sent: 22 July 2010 15:39
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] How long is a blood sample valid for?

Hi Andy

The point I am getting at is that my organisation is not within the NHS and therefore these much talked about grandfather rights do not apply. If I worked within the NHS then I would still have a problem with staff going to high risk areas outside the NHS and this country and not being subjected to at least an interview on return to clarify whether they had had any high risk exposures/nsi's/blood splashes etc etc etc. whist away.

As it stands in your wife's case she should not have to undergo repeated EPP screens whilst under the umbrella of the NHS, although the problem is probably with the different Trusts she has to work within and the different way in which the Guidelines are applied.

Clive; once external to the NHS and entering a different organisation and still practising EPP then I believe it is valid at pre-employment to re-validate those tests once you have taken into consideration incubation periods and the length of time those blood tests were last performed.

Cheers

Pete

Peter Judge LLM, RSCPHN(OH), RSCN, RGN
Occupational Health Adviser
Cardiff University
02920 748955

From:	Andy Phillips <[log in to unmask]>
To:	[log in to unmask]
Date:	22/07/2010 00:36
Subject:	Re: [OCC-HEALTH] How long is a blood sample valid for?

Hi Pete

I am interested (without sounding like a total idiot) for questioning why you would not accept validated EPP bloods greater than one year old?

From the other side, my missus is getting pretty fed up of being repeatedly tested by occupational health departments within Wales when she:

a: has evidence of id validated OH samples for Hep B surface antigen, Hep C and HIV (incidentally, she is known to be immune to Hep B)
B: When she is working as a registrar within the NHS on an inner wales rotation for the past 5 years and she is rotating every year within the NHS.
C; Has not sustained a needle-stick injury during the previous yearly period.

I am finding it difficult as an occupational health professional to justify to her the reasons for the occupational health departments who insist on obtaining EPP validated bloods (every year) when she already has validated samples.

Some of you may know that there really isn't much of my other half to bleed! it must be pretty unpleasant to be a surgeon nowadays without having o be ritualistically bled every rotation (even when she has one of those new fangled smart cards)

I would be really interested to find out consensus of opinion for her and my- (as the person she bends the ear of) sanity!

Tracey, this is very much a very much needed debate!

regards

Andy

--- On Tue, 20/7/10, Peter Judge <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

From: Peter Judge <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] How long is a blood sample valid for?
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tuesday, 20 July, 2010, 14:33

Hi Clive

A very valid point if they stay within the NHS as Paul states in his advocacy of "grandfather rights", but how many staff go off on voluntary trips to high risk countries performing high risk EPP and how many ever report NSI, blood splashes or sharp's injuries that occur out there for fear of not being able to continue EPP work in this country.

The incubation periods are a valid determiner for further screening e.g. Hep B 4-20 weeks, Hep C 2-26 weeks, HIV latency has very wide picture from 2 weeks - 20 years, although incubation is usually 2-4 weeks after exposure. These periods probably had something to do with Tracy's timescales, although I would at pre-employment only accept validated results no greater than 12 months old, beyond this they would need to be repeated.

Cheers

Pete

Peter Judge
Occupational Health Adviser
Cardiff University
02920 748955

From:	"Parbery, Clive" <[log in to unmask]>
To:	[log in to unmask]
Date:	20/07/2010 13:59
Subject:	Re: [OCC-HEALTH] How long is a blood sample valid for?

Hi Tracey,

Not sure why you wish to inflict so much pain on yourselves it is difficult to get results in first place let alone extra ones!!

We use the guidance in the Dept of Health Guidance: Health Clearance Advice for new healthcare workers:

Here is an extract from that text:

Rational:

"Why is testing one-off and not repeated?

10. The logic of one-off testing of new healthcare workers has been questioned,

given that healthcare workers will be at ongoing risk of occupational (and

potentially non-occupational) exposure. Professional codes of practice from

regulatory bodies require healthcare workers who may have been exposed to

infection with a serious communicable disease, in whatever circumstances,

promptly to seek and follow confidential professional advice about whether

to undergo testing. Failure do so may breach the duty of care to patients.

11. This means healthcare workers are under an ongoing obligation to seek

professional advice about the need to be tested if they have been exposed

to a serious communicable disease, obviating the need for repeat testing.

This obligation applies equally to healthcare workers already in post."

Hope this clarifies it for you and others at a time when we will all be stretched and busy.

Regards

Clive Parbery

Senior Occupational Health Nurse Advisor

Telephone Number 01384456111 Ext2949

To become a member of The Dudley Group of Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust and help make a difference to healthcare in Dudley Email [log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]

From: [log in to unmask] [[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Huguenel, Tracy
Sent: 20 July 2010 13:20
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [OCC-HEALTH] How long is a blood sample valid for?

Ah, new doctors intake is looming, and the age old quandary of validity of blood results looms again.
We have been asking for IVS UK bloods no less than 2 years old, and am having difficulty evidencing our rationale for this!
Any help out there please?
Thanks,

Tracy

Tracy Huguenel, RGN, SCPHN (OH)
Deputy Head of Occupational Health
01268 524900 Ext 3591
Fax 01268 534127
email: [log in to unmask]
www.basildonandthurrock.nhs.uk

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