This is exactly what caused me to voice concern in the first place. Science is quite clear, there is no scientific evidence of any kind for creationism, and immense amounts for evolution. This isn't a matter for showing different sides and letting people make up their mind, it's that as science one is demonstrably wrong, so has absolutely no educational value. Evolution is on the national curriculum and somewhere that presents itself as providing science education yet then tells people evolution is not scientifically valid cannot be said to be providing a 'good quality educational experience' which the LOtC badge claims to certify. Noah's Ark's on site interpretation, I am told, includes things like a scale model of the ark itself, that shows how giraffes were housed next to T. Rex (presumably as they're both rather tall), and the interpretation board in the monkey house that lists the top ten reasons that monkeys are different to humans (and so cannot possibly be related). with number 10 being "Humans have the unique ability to worship God" and their website contains furious ad hominem attacks on Darwin and other scientists and generally denies evolution has any validity whatsoever . Presented as a religious experience, no problem, claiming to provide science education, big problem.
As our centre is LOtC badged, I know that teachers, whatever the LOtC's intentions, view this as at least in part an indication that what they will get is of high educational standards, as well as meeting practical safety etc standards and while I wouldn't want them to necessarily get into the business of vetting the quality of what is taught, I would like to think that to be considered worthy of being certified as a quality place for learning outside the classroom, an organisation should at least not contradict the national curriculum in what it communicates.
IAN SIMMONS
I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones - John Cage
Science Centre - www.life.org.uk
Forteana - www.forteantimes.com & www.anomalist.com
Science Writing and Sound Reviews - www.nthposition.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Lalage Grundy
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Council for Learning Outside the Classroom approves Creationist Attraction
OK if it is presented as a question of faith. The problem arises when it is presented as a matter of science, which calls into question whether it is good science and good education which is exactly what LOTC is designed to vet
Lalage
Lalage Grundy
Surrey Heritage Team Manager for Learning, Museums and Partnership
130 Goldsworth Road, Woking, GU21 6ND
Tel 01483 518782
Diane Taylor <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: "List for discussion of issues in museum education in the UK." <[log in to unmask]>
27/07/10 16:42 Please respond to
Diane Taylor <[log in to unmask]>
To [log in to unmask]
cc
Subject Re: Council for Learning Outside the Classroom approves Creationist Attraction
I agree Robin, it's not what LOTC is there to do, and anyway sounds like
they're not claiming there's is the absolute truth.
Diane
Diane Taylor
Audience Development Officer
Harrogate Museums & Arts
Mercer Art Gallery,
Swan Road, Harrogate
HG1 2SA
Tel: 01423 556188
Fax: 01423 556130
www.harrogate.gov.uk/museums
Exhibitions at Harrogate Museums & Arts
Royal Pump Room Museum
"Egyptology: Science Investigation" - discover some of our Ancient
Egyptian treasures. See how science is helping us learn more about our
Ancient Egyptian objects.
"Well Travelled" - Journey to many parts of the world in our exhibition
of objects from far-flung places.Until 5 September.
Mercer Art Gallery
'The Secret Garden' - works from Harrogate's fine art collection in an
exhibition inspired by the classic children's novel. Until 6 June.
'Treasures of the Mercer' - Favourites from the fine art collection.
Until 25 July.
Knaresborough Castle.
Visit the King's Tower, dark dungeon and secret underground tunnel,
Find out about Knaresborough's past and colourful characters. Open from
Good Friday 2010 daily.
Please ring or visit our website for further details of our varied
children's & adults activities programme.
>>> Robin Clutterbuck <[log in to unmask]> 27/07/2010
16:36 >>>
I disagree with Richard and Ian's response. Why is it OK to visit a
place
of worship where belief and faith are part of the deal, but not OK to
go to
a zoo where some of the staff have beliefs of their own? The
techniques
used by good education services at religious sites aim to elicit
feelings of
personal reflection in a setting designed for people to think about
these
things - so why not in a zoo where you're right in front of the
'evidence'
and the debate can be even closer to the reality?
I looked at the Noah's Ark Farm Park's website and they explicitly say
that
evolution and creation are areas open to debate, and that while they
have
their own views, it's up to the individual to come to their own
conclusions:
'In our view the evidence currently known points to a 'both/and'
situation
(creation and evolution) rather than 'either/or'' ... we encourage
interested readers to explore the issues for themselves'. Ian's Life
Centre
runs a KS4 workshop in which students 'use dialogue activities to
explore
Darwin's theory and the historical ideas behind it and decide for
themselves
how modern day criticisms of evolution should be answered' - not that
different?
Noah's Ark Farm Park lists a range of educational workshops and
activities
based around National Curriculum in Science and there's no suggestion
that
these workshops actually morph into something else when the schools
arrive.
It appears that the Farm Park was chosen as one of the 10% of
self-assessed
sites to receive an inspection, and presumably this found that the
service
was as described in its publicity, otherwise that would in itself be a
reason to lose the quality badge status.
However the main point, as expressed in the CLOtC's reply, is that the
Quality Badge is about processes, not content. The Farm obviously
reached
the standard required and was awarded the badge. It's not up to the
CLOtC
to discriminate between different applicants on anything other than
quality
of provision.
For these reasons, while on a personal level I refute Creationism, I
can't
see a reason why Noah's Ark Farm Park should lose its badge.
Robin Clutterbuck
White Rook Projects
www.whiterook.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: List for discussion of issues in museum education in the UK.
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Richard Ellam
Sent: 27 July 2010 14:17
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Council for Learning Outside the Classroom approves
Creationist
Attraction
Dear All
List members considering whether to seek the Learning Outside the
Classroom Quality Badge may be interested in, and conc
erned about,
the
CLOtC's decision to award their Quality Badge to the Noah's Ark Farm
Park at
Wraxall, near Bristol.
The Noah's Ark Farm is an explicitly and agressively Creationist
folly,
which seeks to mislead children by teaching them the literal truth of
the
biblical account of creation and explicitly denies that evolution can
explain the diversity of life on Earth.
Quite apart from any wider concerns about the validity of these
opinions,
the teaching of Creationism is contrary to the requirements of the
National
Curriculum.
A number of people involved in science communication and informal
science
education including my colleague Ian Simmons from the Centre for Life
in
Newcastle are very concerned about the fact that CLOtC has accredited
Noah's
Ark in the first place, and (as the correspondence below shows) doesn't
seem
to understand that it might have made a mistake in the second.
If you share our concerns, can I ask you to join with us in writing
to the
CLOtC to express your concern.
The CLOtC can be contacted via [log in to unmask]
Thanks
Richard.
Richard Ellam
L M Interactive
Science Shows and Hands-On Stuff
[log in to unmask]
Begin forwarded message:
From: Ian Simmons <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 27 July 2010 11:49:45 BDT
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [PSCI-COM] Council for Learning Outside the Classroom
Reply-To: "psci-com: on public engagement with science"
<[log in to unmask]>
Centre for Life is accredited by the Council for Learning Outside
the
Classroom with their Learning Outside the Classroom Quality Badge, but
I was
worried to find out this week that they'd also given this status to
the Noah
's Ark Zoo - a creationist outfit near Bristol, so I wrote to them
expressing my concerns that we are put on a par with such a dubious
body,
and got this reply
"Dear Mr Simmon, s
Many thanks for your email concerning the recent award of the
Learning
Outside the Classroom Quality Badge to Noah's Ark Zoo Farm.
The criteria for awarding the LOtC Quality Badge are that the
organisation must offer good quality learning outside the classroom
and
manage risk effectively. The Council for Learning Outside the Classroom
is
very committed to equality and we will award the Quality Badge to an
organisation that can demonstrate that it meets these criteria; past
awards
have included Interfaith Kirklees and Canterbury Cathedral without any
implied endorsement of their religious base.
CLOtC believes that an important aim of learning outside the
classroom
is allowing children and young people access to education that
challenges
assumptions and allows them to experience a range of viewpoints; giving
them
the tools needed to be proactive in their own learning.
CLOtC is an independent charity and I would like to stress that
the
operation of the LOtC Quality Badge scheme receives no government
funding.
Kind Regards
Amy"
Which concerns me even more, such that I am considering asking to
be
delisted, as I think giving them a stamp of providing 'good quality
education' devalues us by association, if any of your organizations
are LOtC
registered and share my concern I would urge you to make it known to
them -
their website is
http://www.lotc.org.uk/The-LOTC-quality-badge/The-LOTC-quality-badge
IAN
Ian Simmons
Science Communication Director
Centre for Life
Management Suite
Times Square
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE1 4EP
Tel: +44191 2438250
Fax: +44191 2438201
Email: [log in to unmask]
Life - A Centre for world-class science
This year we celebrate our 10th birthday - Find out more at
www.life.org.uk
Doctor Who Exhibition at Life until Sunday 31 October 2010 - Book
tickets now at www.life.org.uk/whats-on
10th Anniversary Debate, Science - Where in the Ne
xt Ten Years
-
www.life.org.uk/whats-on
Our mission is to inspire curiosity in science through imaginative
exhibitions and events, raise standards in science education and
support
world-class scientific research.
Disclaimer - July 27, 2010
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for 'psci-com: on public engagement with science'. If
you
are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute,
copy or
alter this email. Any views or opinions presented in this email are
solely
those of the author and might not represent those of Centre for Life.
Warning: Although Centre for Life has taken reasonable precautions to
ensure
no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept
responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this
email or
attachments.****************************************************************
****** 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for
example,
send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following
message:
set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens]
2. To resume email from the list, send an email to
[log in to unmask] with the message:
set psci-com mail -- [include hyphens]
3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with
the
message:
leave psci-com -- [include hyphens]
4. Further information about the psci-com discussion list,
including
list archive, can be found at the list web
site:http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html
5. The psci-com gateway to internet resources on science
communication
and science and society can be found at http://psci-com.ac.uk
6. To contact the Psci-com list owner, please send an email to
mailto:[log in to unmask]**************************************
********************************
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + GEM list: Contact the list
owner
for assistance at [log in to unmask] For information about
joining,
leaving and suspending mail (eg during a holiday) see the list website
at
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=GEM + + + + + + + + + +
+ + +
+ + + + + + +
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+ + + + + + + +
GEM list: Contact the list owner for assistance at
[log in to unmask]
For information about joining, leaving and suspending mail (eg during a
holiday) see the list website at
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=GEM
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+ + + + + + + +
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email and any attachments may contain information that is confidential or privileged,and is intended solely for the use of
the named recipient.If you are not the intended recipient,storing, copying or disclosing this email is prohibited and may be unlawful.
Please delete it.
Any opinions are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Council.
No Officer is authorised to make a contract on the Council's behalf by email.
The recipient is responsible for virus checking this email and any attachments.
The Council does not accept service of legal documents by email.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scanned by MailMarshal
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
GEM list: Contact the list owner for assistance at [log in to unmask]
For information about joining, leaving and suspending mail (eg during a holiday) see the list website at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=GEM
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
This email and any attachments with it are intended for the
addressee only. It may be confidential and may be the subject of
legal and/or professional privilege.
If you have received this email in error please notify the
sender or [log in to unmask]
The content may be personal or contain personal opinions and
cannot be taken as an expression of the County Council's position.
Surrey County Council reserves the right to monitor all incoming
and outgoing mail. Whilst every care has been taken to check this
e-mail for viruses, it is your responsibility to carry out any
checks upon receipt.
Visit the Surrey County Council website -
http://www.surreycc.gov.uk
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + GEM list: Contact the list owner for assistance at [log in to unmask] For information about joining, leaving and suspending mail (eg during a holiday) see the list website at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=GEM + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
GEM list: Contact the list owner for assistance at [log in to unmask]
For information about joining, leaving and suspending mail (eg during a holiday) see the list website at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=GEM
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
