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From: International boundaries discussion list [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gary Jeffress [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 6:57 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [INT-BOUNDARIES] assistance with coordinates

M. Kallos et al,

A caution on coordinates:

Coordinates are the end results of measurements and indeed are very useful in locating and re-establishing a boundary, particularly when the geodetic datum of the coordinates is referenced and the instrumentation and procedures for measurement are attached as metadata. Keep in mind that all measurements have an associated error, which surveyors keep to a minimum using statistics and note the uncertainty, usually at the 95 percent confidence level.

These days the Global Navigational Satellite System (GNSS), which includes the Global Positioning System (GPS), is by far the most useful system for establishing boundary coordinates. With the correct multi-frequency receiver, and observing sufficient amounts of usable data, very accurate coordinates can be obtained to the centimeter level.

HOWEVER, there is a very long-standing legal precedent in just about every jurisdiction throughout the world, which states “monuments take precedent over measurements”. This means that an established boundary monument that has long been recognized as a boundary marker by adjoining jurisdictions is the boundary. Any measurement or coordinate that documents the location of the monument is evidence of the boundary location. If a monument is destroyed or disappears, coordinates can then be used as the best available evidence to re-locate the boundary.

These principles should be applied to international boundaries.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Gary



On 6/6/10 5:07 PM, "aletheia kallos" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

greetings & salutes all experts

tho the coordinates in the table are not entirely legible
they can be largely reconstructed from the scales shown in the margins
& then substantially confirmed with the help of a great circle calculator

the greatest difficulty of the situation is that the distances & boundary points do not appear to have been very precisely measured & determined in the first place

so the most probable but still not necessarily correct original data are as follows
with the most questionable remaining ciphers indicated in red
& fortunately all confined to seconds only

m1 e34d13n07s8 n31d19m27s4m2 e34d13m58s6 n31d20m08s2
approx 6034ft apart at roughly n47e

m3 e33d56m41s6 n31d33m48s0
m4 e33d57m31s7 n31d34m30s1
approx 6073ft apart at roughly n46e

the above pairs were supposed to be 1nm or 6080ft apart


k1 e34d29m18s2 n31d35m50s9
k2 e34d28m21s1 n31d34m34s7
approx 9148ft apart at roughly s33w

k3 e34d09m48s4 n31d46m38s3
k4 e34d08m49s9 n31d45m23s1
approx 9124ft apart at roughly s34w

the above pairs were supposed to be 1 & a half nm or 9120ft apart


& testing for the purportedly 20nm distances seaward
m1m3 approx 20nm & 386ft at roughly n45w
m2m4 approx 20nm & 515ft at roughly n45w
k1k3 approx 19nm & 4959ft at roughly n58w
k2k4 approx 19nm & 5135ft at roughly n57w


note
values given are in datum ed50
which can differ from wgs84 by a few hundred feet

& continuing the reconstruction with a careful reading & comparison of the utm values might resolve the few remaining slight uncertainties
but it would seem an even bigger fools errand to attempt in view of all the evident inexactitudes already built in

hope it helps anyway

cheers
a

--- On Sun, 6/6/10, Marian Houk <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

From: Marian Houk <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [INT-BOUNDARIES] assistance with coordinates
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sunday, June 6, 2010, 1:39 PM

Dear Stanley
According to an expert who kindly agreed to help me, "the outer limit of the oslo fishing zone appears on this map to be
at least 20 nautical miles from shore
http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/0D80237A-9B99-42D4-8BA0-FB8627593661/0/MFAG003p0.gif <http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/0D80237A-9B99-42D4-8BA0-FB8627593661/0/MFAG003p0.gif>
& in fact to extend between n31d34m30s1 e33d57m31s7 at point m4 & n31d43m53s1 e34d08m49s9 at point k4"
 
The coordinates of this map of Gaza's maritime space (the map is part
of the Oslo Accords) are also very similar though apparently not completely identical
(there may have been a slight datum shift) to the coordinates of the Israeli naval blockade,
which are posted here
http://info.mot.gov.il/EN/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=124:no12009&catid=17:noticetomariners&Itemid=12?
 
and also here:
http://un-truth.com/israel/here-it-is-naval-blockade-notice
 
Also of possible interest:
http://un-truth.com/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=5200
 
http://un-truth.com/israel/i
 
http://un-truth.com/israel/israels-naval-blockade
 
and even this:
Israel announces formal naval blockade of Gaza, surrounds Gaza City Marian Houk January 04, 2009
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/86723#  
At the moment, I am requesting coordinates of the spot where the Israeli Navy boarded
the MV Rachel Corrie yesterday, and will forward them if there is interest.
 
Regards,
Marian Houk


--- On Sun, 6/6/10, Stanley James <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

From: Stanley James <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: assistance with coordinates
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sunday, June 6, 2010, 6:59 PM

hello All

Can anyone assist with tracking down the coordinates from this map, http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/0D80237A-9B99-42D4-8BA0-FB8627593661/0/MFAG003p0.gif

The coordinates on the map are a little difficult to actually decipher, and I can't seem to track down a better quality version of the map.

Thanks very much
Stanley James

---

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Dr. Gary Jeffress, RPLS
Professor of Geographic Information Science
Department of Computing Sciences
Director, Conrad Blucher Institute for Surveying and Science
Texas A&M University-Corpus Christi
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