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Dear Roger, thanks a lot for your support and for the point you make to the last email of Matteo Levi. I should apologise for not having answered to the requests of clarifications that came from several members of this mailing list but I prefer not to start a one to one dispute with a person, that did not even qualify himself - is he a film man or a geologist? -, that is clearly against anithing INGV did and is doing. We are scientists and we do not want to become trapped with politics. I think that a good explanation of what is the situation can be found in the today News published by Nature today http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100622/pdf/465992a.pdf Daniela -- Daniela Pantosti Istituto Nazionale di Geofisica e Vulcanologia Via Vigna Murata 605 - 00143 ROMA [log in to unmask] +39 0651860483 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +39 0651860483 end_of_the_skype_highlighting +39 3357927038 fax +39 0651860507 Def. Quota "Musson, Roger M W" <[log in to unmask]>: > I think that the allegation that INGV staff are falsifying > signatures on the open letter is outrageous. If the poster has > evidence of abuse, he should present it, otherwise he should > withdraw the allegation and apologise. > > Roger Musson > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tectonics & structural geology discussion list [mailto:GEO- >> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Matteo Levi >> Sent: 23 June 2010 21:17 >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: GEO-TECTONICS Digest - 21 Jun 2010 to 22 Jun 2010 (#2010- >> 106) >> >> Dark Ages ? >> >> Why should we assume science is threatened ? What are the evidences or >> facts about? We are not asked to sign on that. >> Science and Law are dynamic and dialectic processes. They are not on a >> leash, they have to prove their strength and getting stronger. >> Commissione Grandi Rischi, if you pay more attention, did not follow a >> scientific pattern in finding a solution. They were not asked to >> provide a prediction, they were asked to pay attention to details and >> prepare a contingency plan in case. They did not. They said they could >> not provide a prediction but in the same time they calmed down people >> it would not have been any quake: but it is a prediction, isn't it? It >> is a formal logic issue. >> >> How is it going on? Italian President of Republic was given the open >> letter. If you signed or just took a look, you can note your sign is >> not verified nor a captcha is used. Do you think it is a scientific way >> of proceeding? This is the real attack to Science in Italy. >> >> Do you really trust people working this way? Do you trust all the >> signatures are true? Or maybe are you considering this is the Popper's >> science falsification method? >> >> Best regards, >> >> Matteo Levi >> >> >> >> >> again act on a national body and make (or fail to make) such >> predictions. >> The Dark Ages beckon. >> >> --- On Tue, 6/22/10, GEO-TECTONICS automatic digest system >> <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> > From: GEO-TECTONICS automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> >> > Subject: GEO-TECTONICS Digest - 21 Jun 2010 to 22 Jun 2010 (#2010- >> 106) >> > To: [log in to unmask] >> > Date: Tuesday, June 22, 2010, 11:01 PM >> > There is 1 message totaling 64 lines >> > in this issue. >> > >> > Topics of the day: >> > >> > 1. about an attack to Science in Italy >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> > >> > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 09:46:40 +0100 >> > From: Alan Gibbs <[log in to unmask]> >> > Subject: Re: about an attack to Science in Italy >> > >> > Not sure if Paul is right about the Dark Ages. In fact it >> > might well be the >> > opposite. >> > >> > Many other professions are in the same position. I can >> > think of engineers, >> > lawyers, accountants, medical doctors etc, etc. who all >> > deal with >> > predictions that are not binary in a right/wrong sense. >> > >> > In practice they are careful with what they say, when they >> > do say something >> > they give it as an "opinion" or they place error bars or >> > probability on the >> > prediction. Geologists tend to make big statements with >> > lots of conviction >> > when they really mean that on a small amount of dubious >> > data they think that >> > xx might be the case, and then seek peer challenge to take >> > the discussion >> > forwards. I have no idea what our earthquake colleagues >> > actually said, >> > rather than what was reported, but expect that it was less >> > careful than >> > others might have offered. The reaction is of course over >> > the top and I too >> > added my signature, but let's take this as a wake-up call >> > to be a little >> > more scientific and professional when we speak or report to >> > other stake >> > holders. And let's not forget that we do have an obligation >> > to the other >> > stake holders who at the end of the day pay our wages. >> > >> > alan >> > >> > Dr Alan Gibbs >> > Director >> > Midland Valley Exploration >> > 144 West George Street >> > Glasgow >> > G2 2HG >> > tel: 44 (0) 141 332 2681 >> > fax: 44 (0) 141 332 6792 >> > >> > >> > [log in to unmask] >> > >> > www.mve.com >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Tectonics & structural geology discussion list >> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >> > On Behalf Of Ryan, Paul (EOS) >> > Sent: 17 June 2010 19:31 >> > To: [log in to unmask] >> > Subject: Re: about an attack to Science in Italy >> > >> > It is best to assume that science is threatened and to >> > sign. The >> > key point, however, is that if scientific predictions are >> > required >> > by law to be exact, then no scientist worthy of the name >> > can ever >> > again act on a national body and make (or fail to make) >> > such predictions. >> > The Dark Ages beckon. >> > >> > Paul >> > >> > Paul D. Ryan >> > EOS, NUI Galway, Ireland. >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > End of GEO-TECTONICS Digest - 21 Jun 2010 to 22 Jun 2010 >> > (#2010-106) >> > ******************************************************************** >> > >> >> >> > > -- > This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only. NERC > is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the contents > of this email and any reply you make may be disclosed by NERC unless > it is exempt from release under the Act. 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Thank you.