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I'm with you all the way on this, Judy, But The tough men are not with us. NO one, bar Alison, who is for status quo, that is, status quo anti (what have you got?) has expressed an opinion against throwing him off the list has shown ANY understanding of how others might be cowed though they are not. I think that's true. Of or to the target of your pleas, I shall say nothing more. I've seen what I believe are similar situations and suffered them in the past. Here we go again Of the others, I recall a teacher coming into the staff room where I worked some years ago, with a dart sticking out of their head, in the forehead, about an inch above one eye. The dart was removed. The blood staunched. And that was it because the teacher forgave the young person who had made the attack - very generous of them with all our safety - and refused to report it giving reasons all to do with their standpoint And much harm came of it I am beginning to become abstractly interested in the scene here, watching it and the occasional scuttling between ruins... in a watching next door sort of way and then there's the protagonist who is providing so much good rich psychotic raw material... My notebook is out There's a line which until now I always resented in which Ibsen says he keeps a picture of Strindberg on the wall of his study "because he looks so delightfully mad". I have more respect for Strindberg than that (though he *was often cuckoo); but I am now seeing from the Ibsen angle L On Tue, May 25, 2010 16:24, Judy Prince wrote: > I formally request Stephen Vincent and Sharon Brogan, our listmanagers, > to remove Desmond Swords from this list. > > I will continue to formally request his being removed from this list. > > > Judy > > > On 25 May 2010 09:54, Desmond Swords <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > >> It's interesting how things become distorted and the root cause of an >> episode of group bullying, become lost and unimportant as the group >> bullying their victim shout and holler, as Ken said, damning their >> victim as some kind of mentally ill sexist-racist-satan - when s/he >> their victim is wholly innocent and it was the bully's lack of creative >> intelligence and paranoia which kicked everything off in the first >> place. >> >> The root of this episode came in the Wimbledon post that was begun by >> Alison with the express purpose of 'harmless mockery' of Matthew >> Harvey's >> first poem on the job; because she thought it wrong such 'poor' poetry >> was 'being given a prominent public space; worse, a corporatised public >> space'. >> >> You will notice I am quoting Alsion here, evincing textual evidence; >> the fundamental process in critical debate. You will notice too I am >> calm, quiet, using no offensive words, following the rules and >> guidelines. >> >> Indeed, throughout this debate, I have not directed any offensive >> insults to anyone, though have received a fair bit myself from Laurence >> and Alison, who started the ball rolling after I failed to make clear >> that my first response to her call for some 'harmnless mockery' of >> Matthew Harvey's forst >> poem on the job - was merely a first draft of something I was writing >> for publication elsewhere online, at Alison Flood's guardian books blog >> thread about the very same subject, Matthew Harvey's Wimbledon Poem. >> >> The language of my first response, reading it back now; holding in mind >> the fact that if you had known it was a first draft that was 'harmlessly >> mocking' the Guardian commentators, instead of your very good selves, >> the ppl with opposite views from your own - would Alison have told me to >> 'fuck >> myself'; should she have known I was only indulging in a sport she >> herself started, 'harmelss mockery'; of the guardian commentators? >> >> This essentially is where the episode kicked off; a harmless mistake on >> my part that brought about an outpouring from Al, who went into, what >> she would say is perfectly acceptable mode of standing up for herself >> and her gender - but another observer could say was everything the >> bullies here who have been demonizing me - reckon I am about. >> >> When I explained how the mistake came about, passions where such ppl >> where still angry, I myself responded the exact same way Al had >> initially done with me, and found I got passed all the rubbish gender >> arguments, that I personally don't have much truck with; because it >> seems to me that it is thoser with the most success, arguing most >> stridently about how bcuz of their gender they were held back by the >> male system. >> >> That's just my own personal belief, I am an unpublished poet, with four >> sisters, never been divorced or had any bad experiences with women, am >> totally for equality and beleive that there are plenty of women out >> there who cynically develop their feminst credentials, as the perfect >> cover to abuse others in the name of a higher cause. Al told me to 'go >> fuck' myself, and justified it with gender. I have not abused her at >> all. I even apologized to make peace and because I am not interested in >> all the battles of the eighties and nineties that many younger women >> artists I meet, feel are over bcuzx equality is here, transparently so. >> >> So, this is where the fault line was, a misreading, occassioned by the >> fact I didn't make it clear that my first response to Al's wimbledon >> post, was in fact a piece of creative writing addressing a different >> audience. >> >> I have apologized for this, and do not like being bullied, and am >> writing bcuz I am not going to be silent whilst others start >> assasinating my character. >> >> There are other women on this list who claim to have been silenced in >> the past by bullying. It is for those, the ones who where silenced by >> the bullies, who I am speaking up for. >> >> Thanks very much. >> >> > > > > -- > "Ostriches can't be beheaded." > > > Jeff Hecker, Norfolk VA > > -- "The desire to testify": interview with Chris Goode http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2010/02/desire-to-testify.html ["the fullest, or at least the broadest, account I've yet given of what it is I think I do and what questions underwrite it" Chris Goode] ‘a song and a film’ by Lawrence Upton -- Veer Publications / Writers Forum ISBN: 978-1-907088-05-6 A5 84 pages. 2009. £6.00 "water lines and other poems" by Lawrence Upton - Pdf_16x16 111 pages free download http://chalkeditions.co.cc ‘snap shots and video’ by Lawrence Upton -- Writers Forum ISBN: 978-1-84254-113-5 A5 52 pages. £6.00 Lawrence Upton AHRC Creative Research Fellow Dept of Music Goldsmiths, University of London