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I believe Stephen's away Gentle? Doing nothing isn't gentleness. We could get a corpse or a mannikin to do that. And I'll say again that using one's own feelings only as a test, particularly if one is fairly tough in these matters, is unreliable. It doesn't say what the community needs, only what the individual needs I think of Bob's querying of "intimidation". I haven't gone back on that and might not have done. I suppose he means that he doesn't find Swords intimidating. And therefore? doubts he is. I can't say that I experienced it that way, either, not directly, but that was its intention. It made me think of kids getting on trains or walking down the road with blaring music who, when challenged, swear and curse and talk about the democratic rights and tell you to go somewhere else if you don't like it. Again, not everyone will see it as intimidating or at least more than a little offputting. Not everyone is willing to put up with this crap They may not be here reading any more to confirm that It's a bit sad that all this seems to hard to grasp. One says: we need to think of other people's point of view; and the other replies: well i don't have any problem Belief in free speech? Belief in its existence? Belief in its efficacy? (As a phrase it is almost without meaning.) Depends what you mean by belief. Depends what you mean by "free speech". I'll say it again: Total freedom of speech is a ridiculous idea. In case that is not clear - I was trying to be as brief as possible - that it is not possible to have total freedom of speech. At best, it relies upon rational debate for a start. QED Freedom of speech which impinges upon another's freedom of speech is not freedom of speech Instigating personal abuse is not freedom of speech (implying intellectual inquiry and saying the unsayable) but bullying (implying power is self-evidently good) in much the same way that kicking someone in the head is NOT expressing yourself through competitive sport, well, not if they haven't freely consented L On Tue, May 25, 2010 12:34, David Bircumshaw wrote: > I think Sharon and Stephen's gentle style of list management is > excellent, and helps make this a pleasing place to attend. I also believe > in free speech, because I've seen what happens in its absence. > > -- > (David) "Dave no more" Joseph Bircumshaw > "Every old house was scaffolding once/And workmen whistling" > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw > twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave > blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/ > > -- "The desire to testify": interview with Chris Goode http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2010/02/desire-to-testify.html ["the fullest, or at least the broadest, account I've yet given of what it is I think I do and what questions underwrite it" Chris Goode] ‘a song and a film’ by Lawrence Upton -- Veer Publications / Writers Forum ISBN: 978-1-907088-05-6 A5 84 pages. 2009. £6.00 "water lines and other poems" by Lawrence Upton - Pdf_16x16 111 pages free download http://chalkeditions.co.cc ‘snap shots and video’ by Lawrence Upton -- Writers Forum ISBN: 978-1-84254-113-5 A5 52 pages. £6.00 Lawrence Upton AHRC Creative Research Fellow Dept of Music Goldsmiths, University of London