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Tania perhaps it is possible to reframe the issue you raise. It is not so much about finding art films that 'inherently' display abstractions. Instead, you can ask different questions of an art film. Roland Barthes did this in his essay on the Third Meaning - where he decided to focus his attention on apparently insignificant details in a series of Eisenstein film stills. You can decide to ignore an art film's narrative and instead seek out abstractions, rather than wait for them to appear as self-evident facts. Some scholars suggest that, in the Third meaning, Barthes was returning to a Surrealist reading strategy, one that disrupts dominant ways of consuming mainstream or art films (i.e., in terms of their narrative etc.). Robert B Ray carries out these types of readings (at least of Hollywood films), James Elkins does something similar in art history. Warren Buckland * * Film-Philosophy After hitting 'reply' please always delete the text of the message you are replying to To leave, send the message: leave film-philosophy to: [log in to unmask] Or visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html For technical help email: [log in to unmask], not the salon * Film-Philosophy online: http://www.film-philosophy.com Contact: [log in to unmask] **