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Bob, I still think judged is the wrong word for what you are talking about but I won't push it. I can be extremely critical of poems, for example, and slam them in print - but this particular area of criticism is, I know, fraught with problems of discourse, ideology, polemics and the competing voices of intellectual and instinctive response. Also, I have no real power or context which would make my 'opinion' matter much. And I don't agree with you that we go through life 'judging' everything - though I still think this is because of the way you are using the word. For me an opinion is not necessarily a judgement..... something like that. All best Tim A. On 13 Mar 2010, at 17:17, Bob Grumman wrote: > Tim Allen wrote: >> Bob, >> >> Judged is just the wrong word > Tim, I'm sorry, but I'm a fanatic about what I think is definitional > correctness. It annoys me that because, say, "racial > discrimination" is something bad (for most people), that > "discrimination" now means for some people something evil. Same > with "judge" out of "judgemental." > > I would say that all response to any aspect of life is evaluative > and hierarchal, etc. We judge every step of our lives in some way, > mostly unconsciously, but we still judge, for instance, exactly how > vigorous our next step will be when walking, or figuratively. > Judging is not pronouncing sentences. > To judge, which we all do and have to do, is simply determining how > well the judge likes something. I read Sheila Murphy's poem when I > first joined Poetryetc, and judged it excellent. I judge poems > whenever I experience them. Others judge my poems. You can't avoid > giving them numbers. A low number needn't be a sentence, for--if > explained, and that's crucially important--and can help the poet > raise ii if he agrees with your judgement, or tell him you don't > know what you're talking about. if he doesn't. Even if not > explained, a judgement should help any poet by indicating how the > poem's message or shape or whatever is getting over. > > I guess finally I'm defending criticism. And I could go on about > the value of that MUCH longer, maybe as long as Robin sometimes is > on one of his subjects. I'm sure you get the idea, though. > Note: I'm soon to be traveling and probably not able to get on a > computer for a while. So if I don't respond to someone pointing out > that I'm a dingbat or something worse (if there is anything worse), > it's not 'cause I'm a coward! > > --Bob