Gregorian
water is – AFAIK – used only in the consecration of a church.
Stan
Metheny
From: medieval-religion -
Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cate Gunn
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 4:34 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] new priest in 1219
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval
religion and culture
In the Pontificale I've looked at, salt, ashes and water are
mixed together for the consecration of the church and altar. It would be
interesting to know other ceremonies of dedication/consecration they are used
for. - and thank you Stan Metheney for information on their symbolism
Cate
On 30 Mar 2010, at 19:28, Madeleine Gray wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture
I issed a bit of this strand but I'm struck by the
references to salt, water and ashes. Is this specific to the rite for the
consecration of a church, or of a priest? I ask because of a reference in the
first, anonymous, vita of the Welsh saint Gwenfrewi or
Winifred. At a key point in the story her tutor, Beuno, and her family,
have gone to church but she is still in the house preparing fire, water and
salt for the service. What kind of service would this have been, and what is
her role as the person who brings the salt and water and (presumably) the ashes
from the fire?
Maddy
Dr Madeleine Gray
Reader in History
School of Education/Ysgol Addysg
University of Wales, Newport/Prifysgol Cymru,
Casnewydd
Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion,
Newport/Casnewydd NP18 3QT Tel: +44
(0)1633.432675
'We are not bound to win but we are bound to be true' (Barack
Obama)
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of
medieval religious culture on behalf of Stan Metheny
Sent: Tue 30/03/2010 6:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] new
priest in 1219
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture
FYI, most of this is still in the Roman Rite today, at least in
the 1962 Pontifical (aka Extraordinary Form). Many (most?) of the medieval
elements are still in there. Earlier this month there was a rare opportunity to
witness (via online video) this rite, including the elements Cate mentions,
being celebrated in the consecration of the new chapel of Our Lady of Guadalupe
seminary in Denton, Nebraska (US). [The DVD has just been made available http://www.fsspolgs.org/dvd.html.
Some good commentary – and some not so great commentary – was
included with the live broadcast, as well as the Latin and English texts in a
separate pdf. These may be on the DVD as well.]
As for the symbolism of the elements in the Gregorian water, the
traditional explanation is available in various online sources, and is usually
along these lines. Salt is a symbol of wisdom, which is the power coming out of
the cross, which the heavenly source of new life leads out into the world. Ashes
are a symbol of penance. The salt is mixed with the ashes, then both with the
water. Where the power coming from above mixes with the penitential acts, then
the water of heavenly life is stirred. Lastly wine is blessed and mixed with
the water, for that spring fructifies to grace and life in God.
Stan Metheny
From: medieval-religion
- Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cate Gunn
Sent: Tuesday, March 30,
2010 12:45 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] new
priest in 1219
medieval-religion: Scholarly
discussions of medieval religion and culture
According to Dominique Iogna-Prat, La Maison Dieu. Une histoire monumentale de
l'Eglise au Moyen Age (v.800-v.1200) (Paris, 2006) -- which I believe I learned
about from someone on this list -- this is part of the consecration rite that
arose during the Carolingian period, and was performed by the officiating
bishop, who entered the church alone while the rest of the officiants waited
outside with the relics to be inserted in the altar. After inscribing the
alphabets on the floor of the church, he exorcised, blessed and mixed the salt,
water and cinders used for the aspersion of the church. He also prepared
the mortar with which the relics would be sealed into their confessio in the
altar. Finally, he blessed the whole building, its ornaments, vestments
and liturgical vessels. He then left the church to join the other
officiants outside, and after a litany and the blessing of the principal
entrance, and a relic procession around the church, he preached a sermon before
leading the procession with relics into the church.
Cheers,
Jim
This is very much the sort of
thing I've read in the Pontificales - except the bishop enters the church with
all the clergy after knocking on the door three times and calling 'Tollite
portas'. One deacon had previously entered and closed the door. He
responds 'Quis est rex glorie' and the third time the bishop answers, 'Dominus
uirtutum ipse est rex glorie'.
I suppose my next question will be
about the significance of salt, water and ashes - symbolising life and death I
presume?
John Briggs
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