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god stuff Tim, i have to say though that the same is not quite so true in the US. I cannot speak for Australia and other dominantly English-speaking regions. But now i am beginning to understand some things about the US, one of the reasons that i took the opportunity to move t/here. I cannot speak for DS Marriott, but i suspect that he finds more contact and network here too. LKJ, for example. Not as much of interest to me though as Kamau Brathwaite. Then there is Nathaniel Mackay, Tyrone WIlliams, Harryette Mullen, Tracie Morris, Renee Gladman, the whole Cave Canem initiative including now the fabulous Black Took Collective (3 person live writing collaborations by Dawn Lundy-Martin, Ronaldo Wilson and Duriel Harris), Lorenzo Thomas, Will Alexander, CS Giscombe, Julie Patton . . . there are serious critic-poets such as Aldon Nielson working and publishing scholarship to support and advocate on behalf of such work(s). I'm only mentioning a smattering. Many of these poets are about as out there formally and content-wise as it gets right now. The same can be said of Asian north - American poets (Walter Lew's excellent "Premonitions" anthology gives a glimpse of that circa 1995) and Latina/o poets (extraordinary bodies of work by Edwin Torres, Sonia Sanchez, Jayne Cortez, Rodrigo Toscano . . .). To whit i was just chatting with Keith Tuma and Cathy Wagner a couple of days ago during Lee Ann Brown's week-long visit here about the claim made by Cole Swenson in the new anthology from the University of California "American Hybrid" (publishers of Mark Weiss's important recent bilingual anthology "The Whole Island: six decades of Cuban Poetry" and Dennis Tedlock's completely mind blowing "2000 Years of Mayan Literature . . . one of the more beautiful books one might ever see in print just out) . . . that poets such as Fanny Howe and Rae Armantrout represent a nominal center in poetry here these days . . perhaps too extravagant (a little) but with evidence mounting. Which begs the question . . . of signifying on traditions and resistances and fresh explorations / moves . . xxx cris On Mar 7, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Tim Allen wrote: > Hi Geraldine and David - I've just dug this out of the old mail > back in October. > Tim > > "... a large incentive behind all kinds of avant poetry is the > desire to escape, transcend or play with our notions of identity, > whereas the general tendency in black and asian writing has been > from the other direction, the search to define and find a more > stable identity. The reasons for these different approaches are > pretty obvious. A similar thing happened with regard to the main > thrust of British feminist writing where the desire to identify and > explore female identity was much stronger than the desire to jump > out of it. These rifts appeared first back in the late 60's and > early 70's but, as i've said before, didn't really gain strength > until the 80's, by which time the differences between 'expansive' > poetry (what a lot of avant stuff sometimes got called then) and > mainstream cliche were clear and just about unbridgeable. The fact > that so much 'identity' driven poetry drove itself (or was driven > by the patronizing establishment) into cliche was a tragedy. The > ways in which identity poetics were readily available to be taken- > in by the mainstream - and became a huge and healthy part of that > mainstream - had their negative image in the ways in which the > identity-fleeing poetry of the avant garde was able to be > dismissed, and even accused of being anti-people etc in the process." > > On 5 Mar 2010, at 17:12, Geraldine Monk wrote: > >> Yes, I remember you did an exceptionally insightful response to >> this very question Tim, maybe you could dig it up and repost it? >> >> G >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Tim Allen >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 4:29 PM >> Subject: Re: Infinite Difference, sampler no. 8 >> >> I had an answer David. >> >> Tim A. >> On 5 Mar 2010, at 13:02, David Lace wrote: >> >> > Well said, Peter. I mentioned something along those lines in >> > relation to >> > other “minority” poets, here, a few months ago, and not many people >> > could find an answer. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:59:43 +0000, Peter Riley >> > <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> > >> >> Why is someone like Sascha Akhtar (and there are others) not >> invited >> >> to something like The Brighton Poetry Festival (and others >> similar)? >> >> Why is it almost entirely white? (one exception on current list >> of 20 >> >> poets) (At the old CCCP Dave Marriott used to be our staple >> > exception) >> >> >> >> Why on the other hand is someone like Sascha Atkhar so welcome and >> >> rewarded in the "mainstream" area when she doesn't, it seems to >> me, >> >> really write like that? But the same people will not invite >> British >> >> poets writing in a mode at all similar to hers. >> >> >> >> Does it occur to anyone that there is something crazy or stupid >> going >> >> on? >> >> >> >> PR >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 4 Mar 2010, at 12:09, Carrie Etter wrote: >> >> >> >> Sascha Akhtar's "The Sufi": http://carrieetter.blogspot.com >> >> >> >> Just two more posts before the launch of Infinite Difference: >> Other >> >> Poetries by UK Women Poets in London on the tenth of March.... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2723 - Release Date: >> 03/05/10 07:34:00 >