Hi Oli
You are of
course very welcome. You are right - there are far too many uses of acronyms
and terminologies with us all thinking we mean the same thing by them. I think there
is an assumption that there is a common and shared language. However a recent meeting
by the Science for All group (which Roland has been chatting about) – once
we started to dig down into what ‘engagement’ might mean – it
became apparent that different people and organisations have very different
ideas about this.
The Science
for All report talks about “public engagement with the sciences” (the
‘s’ being very important and aims to convey that it is not just
about science and scientists but includes all the sciences – engineering;
medicine; social sciences and includes both researchers and practitioners of
science. Which is what I suppose PEST is trying to do in a way – but PEST
is an acronym I never use and its not something I hear a lot from other parts
of the community).
Cheers
Lesley
Dr Lesley Paterson
Head of
Public Engagement
The Royal
Academy of Engineering
020 7766
0684
*****************************
Ingenious
A grant
scheme for creative public engagement with engineering projects.
From:
psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Oliver O'Hanlon
Sent: 23 February 2010 14:37
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Does PEST supplant or
subsume PUS?
Thank you MK for you gracious welcome to psci-com!
Oliver O'Hanlon
Researcher
Science
Council
32-
Tel: 020 7922 7881
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From:
Sent: 23 February 2010 12:44
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST
supplant or subsume PUS?
Or just read the
messages in this long and growing discussion.
Both terms have been
spelt out at several stages in this discussion.
Indeed, look no
further than the full address of this group for one clue.
It is hard to
remember to spell out the same thing over and over again for the benefit of
newcomers.
MK
From:
Sent: 23 February 2010 10:26
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST
supplant or subsume PUS?
Oli's
assumption is entirely correct (at least in my usage). Apologies to all for
whom the jargon is not helpful: an object lesson in clear communication...
Dom
Dom
McDonald
Head
of Public Engagement & Business Networks
Science
T:
01865 728953
D:
01865 810021
F:
01865 791854
www.scienceoxfordlive.com
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From:
Sent: 23 February 2010 10:04
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST
supplant or subsume PUS?
Good morning all!!
Im perhaps about to show my ignorance with the
following question. Does PUS stand for ‘Public Understanding of
Science’ and
Cheers all
Oli
Oliver O'Hanlon
Researcher
Science
Council
32-
Tel: 020 7922 7881
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From:
Sent: 22 February 2010 11:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST
supplant or subsume PUS?
At PSP, like Roland and Mike, we come from the
“terminology matters” camp.
In a guide commissioned
by the Research Councils back in 2001 we described a route from monologue to
dialogue and the part that different motivations for communicating science can
play in choosing communication mechanisms. “Dialogue with the public:
Practical guidelines” is still available from the RCUK website and while
some of the detail is now dated, (there have been two more surveys of public
attitudes since then) some of the arguments still seem to be current.
Best wishes
Mark
Mark Dyball
Director
People Science & Policy Ltd
Argyle House,
Kings Cross
NW1 2SD
Direct
line: (0)20 3102 8135
Mobile
07961 149 559
www.peoplescienceandpolicy.com
Company
registration no. 3891609
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From:
Sent: 22 February 2010 09:16
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST
supplant or subsume PUS?
HI all
This is a
really interesting debate. I like what Roland and his team have done in their
report, identifying different ways in which people frame the concept of
"engagement" in order to meet different objectives. I am also
reminded of Brian Trench's work from a few years ago which talks about
different "stances" for science engagement: Deference, Dialogue,
Deficit and Defence. It's a similar idea but sliced up in a different way.
Jamie's
comment about PUS and PEST co-exisiting is quite right (which is lucky, 'cos he
works here...). At Science Oxford we do quite a lot of straight PUS-style talks
with Q&A (2-3 a month): I'm fine with that because a talk with Q&A is a
good way for us to "engage" our core audience, who are quite
well-educated, used to listening attentively for longish periods of time, and
so who respond well to that sort of context (they pay to come, so they must
like it to some extent). Also, because our audiences are rather small (50-60
people) we can have a meaningful Q&A where a significant proportion of the
audience gets to have their say. However, we also mix up our programme with
other methodologies. We do "Meet the Scientist" style events which
are much more dialogic in nature, and "Science in the News", which is
almost totally dialogic (and doesn't need an "expert" at all). At the
other extreme, we do very pedagogic events called "Science ABC" which
are pure deficit model: people come to be "educated", and we do our
best to achieve that in the most effective and fun way we can (which does, of
course, mean that we include discussion and interaction alongside
chalk-and-talk).
So, in a
very unhelpful way, I reckon it's horses for courses, and I suppose where I
disagree with Roland is that I don't think that the terminology question is
terribly important. I recognise that that's probably a classic
"coalface" perspective, however, and it is probably true that what we
call ourselves-and-what-we-do is important in our communications with policy
makers, who get rather hung up on this sort of thing. But would PUS by any
other name smell as sweet...?
Dom
Dom
McDonald
Head
of Public Engagement & Business Networks
Science
T:
01865 728953
D:
01865 810021
F:
01865 791854
www.scienceoxfordlive.com
SCIENCEOXFORDLIVE
SCIENCEOXFORDNETWORKS
SCIENCEOXFORDNEXT
SCIENCEOXFORDONLINE
This
e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may contain personal views
which are not the views of Science Oxford unless specifically stated. If you
have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete
it from your system.
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company limited by guarantee no 1898691
From:
Sent: 22 February 2010 08:51
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST supplant
or subsume PUS?
I can't
imagine Mike toadying to anyone, and this thread shows how live this question
of terminology still is. And, as Mike says, it does matter.
Those who have
read the Science for All report may notice that although we have used the word
'engagement' liberally (indeed, it was in our terms of reference, twice) we
have not actually defined it, except by implication through myriad examples.
What I hope we have done is to make explicit many of the different purposes
and forms of 'engagement'. In doing so, we have been careful not to make
value judgements about this being better than that; it's a question of what's
most appropriate given the objective and context.
For the
mapping work we generated a working description of different forms of
engagement (summarised on p30 of the main report), and a complementary set
is explored in Paul Benneworth's accompanying paper. In her own accompanying
paper, Lindsey Colbourne points out that there are several different forms of
engagement and suggests that consensus needs to be sought on a common set of
descriptors(see pp6-8 of Lindsey's paper). As we discovered in the final stages
of producing the report, different organisations are quite wedded to their own
definitions, because of course they've thought about it carefully in their own
context. We did in fact have a narrative section in the draft main report about
forms of engagement but had to take it out at the last minute because we
couldn't reach sufficient agreement in time.
Perhaps people
could look at the descriptors in our report, identify strengths and
weaknesses in them, and suggest improvements. Whether we can come to a common
set of definitions is an interesting question.
Roland
From:
Sent: 20 February 2010 15:10
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST
supplant or subsume PUS?
I wasn't saying that
PUS doesn't happen, just that nobody calls it that any more, and hasn’t
done so for years.
This is partly
because the people who throw money into the activity bought the pitch and offer
money for “engagement” activities. So the applicants naturally fall
into line.
Roland will think
that I am toadying up to him, but look no further than his group’s report
Science For All – the “Report and action plan from the science for
all expert group” – to see how the “E” word has
infiltrated thinking. The “U” word appears mostly in the context of
understanding engagement.
I am sure that you
are right in saying that old style preaching stills goes on, but the priests
are too ashamed to admit that this is what they do.
Actually, I know
that the old stuff goes on. I referee grant applications for one of the
Research Councils, and see bids for “understanding” money.
MK
PS Anyone who has
not read the
Start here:
or
DO NOT USE THE
DOWNLOAD BUTTON AT THE TOP. It takes you off to fill in a form.
Go instead to the
link:
Science for All
– Final Report and Action Plan
or
From:
Sent: 20 February 2010 09:32
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST
supplant or subsume PUS?
Mark,
I think it's a little naļve to suggest that PUS gave over to
Also, it's worth questioning whether so-called engagement events
succeed in their aims. PEST was based around a desire for dialogue, but, in
truth, many of the events that may claim to live up to the PEST title are
little more than a talk with a Q&A session tagged on to the end. That's not
true dialogue.
Please don't think I'm suggesting that engagement events don't happen,
and don't happen well, because they do. I just think that it's dangerous to
assume that
Cheers,
Jamie
On 19 February 2010 21:49, Michael Kenward <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Consumers, punters, customers, victims?
Those "scare quotes" are there for a purpose.
Of course, there are always people who will, by accident or design,
misunderstand or misinterpret anything.
Let's hear a simple alternative to describe the recipients of PESTilence,
something that might engage folks without descending into academic jargon.
PUS gave over to
ever use the term now outside of academic journals? Outside the academic
literature, which is always slow to respond, I haven't seen PUS for a long
long time.
Even in the early days, back in the 1980s, when COPUS was a shiny new
committee in the wake of the Bodmer report, there were always concerns about
the PUS term, partly because it missed out the T bit. I failed to get much
interest in PUSET.
I think the first person to use the
of the Wellcome Trust. I then started using it widely in places like this
because the acronym appealed to me and because it had the essential T bit.
The idea behind the change was that "understanding" carries a very
different
message from "engagement".
"If only they understood us..." People who write papers on this stuff
in
journals like Public Understanding of Science call it, as you say, the
"deficit model".
You may consider it a cynical rebranding. I see it otherwise. Words matter.
Engagement smacks more of a two-way process. You have to do more than
explain science to engage people.
Engagement can also happily encompass understanding. After all, if people
don't understand what you are saying they aren't likely to become engaged.
But understanding on its own does not engage.
MK
-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Chris Stokes
Sent: 19 February 2010 15:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST supplant or subsume PUS?
I've been impressed by the gradual move from PUS to
years. But a bit wary at the same time. For me, the name change implies a
change in the perspective of SET communication. It nicely fits with what a
recent (not yet published - OnlineFirst) paper for the Public Understanding
of Science journal refers to as the 'dialogic turn'. For the incorrigible
cynic, though, it's just an empty rebranding - an effort to wash off the
stink of the deficit model with which the critics lambasted PUS back in the
80s without taking any of the criticism on board.
I don't mean to pick on Mike, but his referring to 'consumers' - even with
the scare quotes - sounds a bit off-message in the brave new world of
Or have I been misreading the name change? Is
tent within which there's room for good old-fashioned PUS, or some of it at
least - alongside other new dialogic things? I imagine, for example, that
there may be plenty of SET communicators who happily do PUS for school
children just as it was being done 20-plus years ago, because school
children are, by definition, learning, are _understanding_ and are _not_
voting.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Michael Kenward
Sent: 19 February 2010 12:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Joined-up working and information sharing
Absolutely, especially this bit:
"The first step is surely to have information sharing and joined-up
working
between activities of a common type or purpose, and a number of our actions
and recommendations are aimed at that (e.g. in the training and development
arena)."
One of my beefs has been the duplication that goes on. In the past too many
engineering bodies, for example, have run similar schemes aimed at schools.
Fortunately, I sense that there is progress on that front.
On gaps, one point worth pondering is the needs of the "consumers".
If PESTs here don't know about everything that goes on in their area -
which, as Roland's report points out, is not easy - what hope is there for
the over worked school teacher? Where do they begin?
MK
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