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Dear Julie Good to hear from you and totally support your thinking. The Bristol and Bath Branch of the Bristol Science Association works closely with the Science Cafes in our area and one of our members has set up a Science Café in a school in which he teaches. Please do make contact direct to discuss further. Eric Eric Albone Chair, Bristol Science Association Bristol and Bath Branch; [log in to unmask] www.bscia-bsba.org.uk <http://www.bscia-bsba.org.uk/> _____ From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ann Grand Sent: 22 February 2010 12:37 To: Eric Albone Subject: School cafe sci Dear Julie There have been one or two Cafe Sci in schools in Bristol but maybe not the school your daughter attends. It used to be that Cafe Sci in schools was mainly focussed in the north of England, because the model was based on direct support from a Cafe Sci project organiser. However, due to feedback and evaluation, they have now changed and made it much more open. Their website (www.juniorcafesci.org.uk) has full details but broadly speaking has materials available so that any teacher (or for that matter student, governor or parent) can start a cafe in their school. It includes information on how to find speakers -- with a link to the STEMNET Ambassador programme, for example. And yes, you're right. Cafe Sci provides a way for students to engage with working scientists and discuss the issues arising from the science they are studying in their classrooms. best wishes Ann PS In case you're wondering if this is some kind of advertisement, until recently, I worked for the schools' Cafe Sci project but now am just an enthusiastic volunteer for the evening Cafe Scientifique network! ----- Original Message ----- From: Julie Clayton <mailto:[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST supplant or subsume PUS? For my pennyworth I would like to advocate for the idea of "Junior Science Cafes" which I know is kicking around somewhere but which I haven't yet seen take place in Bristol where I'm based. This would be a great opportunity for parents to attend together with their children early evening - on various topics that could help with school studies. I recently took my 12-year old and 3 of her school friends to a Science Cafe in Bristol on the topic of recycling - which they happened to be studying at that time. They found it interesting and posed questions (so the format was good for encouraging their participation) but there was a limit to how much of the content and jargon they could take on board because the speakers were pitching their talks at an adult audience -understandably because it's usually adults who attend. I wonder if for slightly older teenagers - the GCSE crowd especially - this could be a real boost for parents needing to find ways to support their kids education? Festivals are great, but we need more year-round forums. Julie Julie Clayton freelance science writer [log in to unmask] Tel 0117 946 6284 UKCSJ - UK Conference of Science Journalists, 23 July 2010 - an initiative of the Association of British Science Writers www.absw.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Alom Shaha Sent: 22 February 2010 09:32 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST supplant or subsume PUS? Just a quick thought to add to this debate. I work as a part-time science teacher and spend the rest of my time doing what I describe as "science communication" - hopefully engaging people and improving their understanding of science. I find it astonishing that, despite sharing many of the same goals, there is a distinct lack of "joined-up thinking" between the science teaching community and the science communication world. I find it surprising that so many people in "science communication" are largely ignorant of how and what science is taught in schools. And yet they are constantly coming up with ways in which they think they can "help" us teachers (I have reviewed a number of grant applications from science communicators aiming to work in schools - many of which show a poor grasp of the national curriculum and of the way schools work). Many of the science communicators I meet would make excellent science teachers - they have far better knowledge of science and are far more passionate and enthusiastic about it then many of the teachers I know. I can't help but feel that with more cross-fertilisation between these two communities, we might be more successful in achieving our common goal of creating greater appreciation / understanding / engagement with science among the general public. And before anyone writes back to tell me about the difference between "informal" and "formal' education, I'd like to make clear that I appreciate the difference and I'm not suggesting that people engaged in "informal" science education don't have a role to play. I just think that these two approaches should overlap more often, not just when schools take a visit to their local science museum / centre. Alom On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Dominic McDonald <[log in to unmask]> wrote: HI all This is a really interesting debate. I like what Roland and his team have done in their report, identifying different ways in which people frame the concept of "engagement" in order to meet different objectives. I am also reminded of Brian Trench's work from a few years ago which talks about different "stances" for science engagement: Deference, Dialogue, Deficit and Defence. It's a similar idea but sliced up in a different way. Jamie's comment about PUS and PEST co-exisiting is quite right (which is lucky, 'cos he works here...). At Science Oxford we do quite a lot of straight PUS-style talks with Q&A (2-3 a month): I'm fine with that because a talk with Q&A is a good way for us to "engage" our core audience, who are quite well-educated, used to listening attentively for longish periods of time, and so who respond well to that sort of context (they pay to come, so they must like it to some extent). Also, because our audiences are rather small (50-60 people) we can have a meaningful Q&A where a significant proportion of the audience gets to have their say. However, we also mix up our programme with other methodologies. We do "Meet the Scientist" style events which are much more dialogic in nature, and "Science in the News", which is almost totally dialogic (and doesn't need an "expert" at all). At the other extreme, we do very pedagogic events called "Science ABC" which are pure deficit model: people come to be "educated", and we do our best to achieve that in the most effective and fun way we can (which does, of course, mean that we include discussion and interaction alongside chalk-and-talk). So, in a very unhelpful way, I reckon it's horses for courses, and I suppose where I disagree with Roland is that I don't think that the terminology question is terribly important. I recognise that that's probably a classic "coalface" perspective, however, and it is probably true that what we call ourselves-and-what-we-do is important in our communications with policy makers, who get rather hung up on this sort of thing. But would PUS by any other name smell as sweet...? Dom Dom McDonald Head of Public Engagement & Business Networks Science Oxford 1-5 London Place Oxford OX4 1BD T: 01865 728953 D: 01865 810021 F: 01865 791854 www.scienceoxfordlive.com SCIENCEOXFORDLIVE SCIENCEOXFORDNETWORKS SCIENCEOXFORDNEXT SCIENCEOXFORDONLINE This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of Science Oxford unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it from your system. Science Oxford is the public face of The Oxford Trust, a registered charity no 292664. A company limited by guarantee no 1898691 From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Roland Jackson Sent: 22 February 2010 08:51 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST supplant or subsume PUS? I can't imagine Mike toadying to anyone, and this thread shows how live this question of terminology still is. And, as Mike says, it does matter. Those who have read the Science for All report may notice that although we have used the word 'engagement' liberally (indeed, it was in our terms of reference, twice) we have not actually defined it, except by implication through myriad examples. What I hope we have done is to make explicit many of the different purposes and forms of 'engagement'. In doing so, we have been careful not to make value judgements about this being better than that; it's a question of what's most appropriate given the objective and context. For the mapping work we generated a working description of different forms of engagement (summarised on p30 of the main report), and a complementary set is explored in Paul Benneworth's accompanying paper. In her own accompanying paper, Lindsey Colbourne points out that there are several different forms of engagement and suggests that consensus needs to be sought on a common set of descriptors(see pp6-8 of Lindsey's paper). As we discovered in the final stages of producing the report, different organisations are quite wedded to their own definitions, because of course they've thought about it carefully in their own context. We did in fact have a narrative section in the draft main report about forms of engagement but had to take it out at the last minute because we couldn't reach sufficient agreement in time. Perhaps people could look at the descriptors in our report, identify strengths and weaknesses in them, and suggest improvements. Whether we can come to a common set of definitions is an interesting question. Roland _____ From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Kenward Sent: 20 February 2010 15:10 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST supplant or subsume PUS? I wasn't saying that PUS doesn't happen, just that nobody calls it that any more, and hasn’t done so for years. This is partly because the people who throw money into the activity bought the pitch and offer money for “engagement” activities. So the applicants naturally fall into line. Roland will think that I am toadying up to him, but look no further than his group’s report Science For All – the “Report and action plan from the science for all expert group” – to see how the “E” word has infiltrated thinking. The “U” word appears mostly in the context of understanding engagement. I am sure that you are right in saying that old style preaching stills goes on, but the priests are too ashamed to admit that this is what they do. Actually, I know that the old stuff goes on. I referee grant applications for one of the Research Councils, and see bids for “understanding” money. MK PS Anyone who has not read the Jackson report yet should do so. Unfortunately, BIS has made a pig’s ear of the place where you can get the thing. Start here: http://interactive.bis.gov.uk/scienceandsociety/site/all/2010/02/09/science- for-all-report-and-supporting-documents/ or http://bit.ly/aXzXoY DO NOT USE THE DOWNLOAD BUTTON AT THE TOP. It takes you off to fill in a form. Go instead to the link: Science for All – Final Report and Action Plan http://interactive.bis.gov.uk/scienceandsociety/site/all/files/2010/02/Scien ce-for-All-Final-Report-WEB.pdf or http://bit.ly/cbKqbs From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jamie Condliffe Sent: 20 February 2010 09:32 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST supplant or subsume PUS? Mark, I think it's a little naïve to suggest that PUS gave over to PEST five or more years ago. While there certainly has been a huge increase in engagement-style events, I think it's a push to say that they've entirely overshadowed the more traditional, pedagogic type. Last time I checked, science centres were still running traditional lectures and talks along side these other 'engagement' events. Also, it's worth questioning whether so-called engagement events succeed in their aims. PEST was based around a desire for dialogue, but, in truth, many of the events that may claim to live up to the PEST title are little more than a talk with a Q&A session tagged on to the end. That's not true dialogue. Please don't think I'm suggesting that engagement events don't happen, and don't happen well, because they do. I just think that it's dangerous to assume that PEST has somehow magically replaced PUS; far better to see them as two different methodologies that can happily co-exist together. Better still to try and forget about such acronyms and do something that the the public(s) want... Cheers, Jamie On 19 February 2010 21:49, Michael Kenward <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Consumers, punters, customers, victims? Those "scare quotes" are there for a purpose. Of course, there are always people who will, by accident or design, misunderstand or misinterpret anything. Let's hear a simple alternative to describe the recipients of PESTilence, something that might engage folks without descending into academic jargon. PUS gave over to PEST at least five years ago, probably longer. Does anyone ever use the term now outside of academic journals? Outside the academic literature, which is always slow to respond, I haven't seen PUS for a long long time. Even in the early days, back in the 1980s, when COPUS was a shiny new committee in the wake of the Bodmer report, there were always concerns about the PUS term, partly because it missed out the T bit. I failed to get much interest in PUSET. I think the first person to use the PEST term privately was Laurence Smaje of the Wellcome Trust. I then started using it widely in places like this because the acronym appealed to me and because it had the essential T bit. The idea behind the change was that "understanding" carries a very different message from "engagement". "If only they understood us..." People who write papers on this stuff in journals like Public Understanding of Science call it, as you say, the "deficit model". You may consider it a cynical rebranding. I see it otherwise. Words matter. Engagement smacks more of a two-way process. You have to do more than explain science to engage people. Engagement can also happily encompass understanding. After all, if people don't understand what you are saying they aren't likely to become engaged. But understanding on its own does not engage. MK -----Original Message----- From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Stokes Sent: 19 February 2010 15:24 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [PSCI-COM] Does PEST supplant or subsume PUS? I've been impressed by the gradual move from PUS to PEST over the last few years. But a bit wary at the same time. For me, the name change implies a change in the perspective of SET communication. It nicely fits with what a recent (not yet published - OnlineFirst) paper for the Public Understanding of Science journal refers to as the 'dialogic turn'. For the incorrigible cynic, though, it's just an empty rebranding - an effort to wash off the stink of the deficit model with which the critics lambasted PUS back in the 80s without taking any of the criticism on board. I don't mean to pick on Mike, but his referring to 'consumers' - even with the scare quotes - sounds a bit off-message in the brave new world of PEST. Or have I been misreading the name change? Is PEST, perhaps, just a bigger tent within which there's room for good old-fashioned PUS, or some of it at least - alongside other new dialogic things? I imagine, for example, that there may be plenty of SET communicators who happily do PUS for school children just as it was being done 20-plus years ago, because school children are, by definition, learning, are _understanding_ and are _not_ voting. Chris -----Original Message----- From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Kenward Sent: 19 February 2010 12:58 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Joined-up working and information sharing Absolutely, especially this bit: "The first step is surely to have information sharing and joined-up working between activities of a common type or purpose, and a number of our actions and recommendations are aimed at that (e.g. in the training and development arena)." One of my beefs has been the duplication that goes on. In the past too many engineering bodies, for example, have run similar schemes aimed at schools. Fortunately, I sense that there is progress on that front. On gaps, one point worth pondering is the needs of the "consumers". If PESTs here don't know about everything that goes on in their area - which, as Roland's report points out, is not easy - what hope is there for the over worked school teacher? Where do they begin? MK ********************************************************************** 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example, send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following message: set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens] 2. To resume email from the list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message: set psci-com mail -- [include hyphens] 3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message: leave psci-com -- [include hyphens] 4. Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html 5. 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