Mark

As a GP, can you clarify something for me? When you assess a patients “fitness for work”, who you know is a PCV / HGV driver, are you assessing them to be fit to do that specific job?

David

-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dr Mark O'Connor
Sent: 17 February 2010 12:45
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] PCV / HGV drivers - Fitness for work note

With my GP hat on I make it very clear to the employee where there is a clear cut license issue ( TIA, MI, First fit etc... ) that they should not drive and I enter in the medical record in UPPER CASE has been TOLD NOT TO DRIVE...

There is a very clear series of steps that GPs ( which includes declaring the condition to the DVLA) then take if they become aware that patients continue to drive as the wider public interests trumps confidentiality issues

Many employees in these circumstances will require a med 3 for ssp and their employer will discover this way. There is much useful work many employees could do in the waiting period ( especially for fits where exclusion times are the longest) and the new fit note will at least allow discovery potentially of those companies that do more to rehabilitate and adjust for their workers

Mark

On 17 February 2010 12:16, Carr Barnes <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Also David remember it is not the GP who advises the DVLA of any medical concerns for fitness to hold a licence but the licence holder (employee) on the advice of the GP; I have come accross a few instances where the employee has not done this for fear of losing their job etc.

On 17 February 2010 12:09, Carr Barnes <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

That the GP is only involved with the employee's responsibilities on holding a licence in relation to DVLA guidelines based on the employee's self report of their working circumstances - these do not take into account or replace the employer's responsibilities under H&S and duty of care to the employee and/or public?

Is that what you are trying to clarify?

On 17 February 2010 12:04, David Wadsworth <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Thanks Carr….maybe I am barking up the wrong tree with the “fit note”. I take on board the points you raise.

I still have a problem.

Essentially, the GP is involved in applying DVLA guidelines and advising the employee on their opinion on the employee’s fitness to drive PCV/HGV. They are therefore intrinsically involved with a safety critical decision which will affect employer’s legal duties of care.

How/Should this involvement be communicated to employer?

David

-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carr Barnes

Sent: 17 February 2010 11:50
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] PCV / HGV drivers - Fitness for work note

Hi David

As posted by Mark & Noel earlier the underlying legal status of the "fit note" is no different than the old Med 3; it is for stat sick pay purposes and is from the GP to the employee not the employer (and is not legally binding for the employer) so would not be relevant for occupational fitness to drive.

On 17 February 2010 11:35, David Wadsworth <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Thanks Carr.

I agree with this, but the question is because GP’s are implicitly involved with DVLA guidelines and are aware the patient drives PCV/HGV for their work, are they assessing fitness to drive PCV/HGV when assessing their “fitness to work”, for the purpose of a certificate.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carr Barnes
Sent: 17 February 2010 11:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] PCV / HGV drivers - Fitness for work note

As far as I understand the ultimately responsibility for fitness to drive for a particular employer lies with that employer. That's the way it has always been in the companies I work for.

On 17 February 2010 09:50, David Wadsworth <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

A general query, but maybe Mark and other professionals involved in applying DVLA guidance on fitness to drive, may be able to help with. I have come across this scenario on a number of occasions which has resulted in various discussions with GP’s, and with the introduction of fit notes, I thought it may be worth exploring.

A patient is a HGV or PCV driver. This is known to the GP.

Is the GP assessing their fitness to drive PCV/HGV, applying DVLA guidelines, or is the GP assessing their “fitness to be at work?” only - Therefore giving the responsibility of decision on fitness to drive PCV/HGV to the employer.

DVLA guidelines make specific reference to doctors documenting their advice on whether or not they have given the patient advice on fit or not to drive PCV / HGV. So is it therefore fair to ask the doctor to document this on the new “fitness for work” cert.

Best regards

David

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